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Atheism feels shunned...
#11
RE: Atheism feels shunned...
(July 9, 2009 at 7:25 am)Pippy Wrote: If I demand the right to think freely, than I have a responsibility to offer that right to you all.
I don't need your permission to think freely, and you don't need mine. Just do so.
"I'm like a rabbit suddenly trapped, in the blinding headlights of vacuous crap" - Tim Minchin in "Storm"
Christianity is perfect bullshit, christians are not - Purple Rabbit, honouring CS Lewis
Faith is illogical - fr0d0
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#12
RE: Atheism feels shunned...
To think freely is a contridiction. We are dictated to by our genes and our unbringing in what we can think and belive. In other words, there is not a free thought in our heads.
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#13
RE: Atheism feels shunned...
(July 9, 2009 at 3:27 pm)dagda Wrote: To think freely is a contridiction. We are dictated to by our genes and our unbringing in what we can think and belive. In other words, there is not a free thought in our heads.
The real contradiction is to demand an impossible right.
"I'm like a rabbit suddenly trapped, in the blinding headlights of vacuous crap" - Tim Minchin in "Storm"
Christianity is perfect bullshit, christians are not - Purple Rabbit, honouring CS Lewis
Faith is illogical - fr0d0
Reply
#14
RE: Atheism feels shunned...
Whatever we call 'free' and 'choices' is what is free and choices 'to us'. I still believe it's entirely mechanical whatever we call it though Wink (and whether determined or undetermined - still no evidence that if it's undetermined that we can determine what goes on in our heads when 'what goes on in our heads' is this 'we' that 'I' speak of Wink).

EvF
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#15
RE: Atheism feels shunned...
(July 9, 2009 at 4:29 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: Whatever we call 'free' and 'choices' is what is free and choices 'to us'. I still believe it's entirely mechanical whatever we call it though Wink (and whether determined or undetermined - still no evidence that if it's undetermined that we can determine what goes on in our heads when 'what goes on in our heads' is this 'we' that 'I' speak of Wink).

EvF
Then define free thought for me.
"I'm like a rabbit suddenly trapped, in the blinding headlights of vacuous crap" - Tim Minchin in "Storm"
Christianity is perfect bullshit, christians are not - Purple Rabbit, honouring CS Lewis
Faith is illogical - fr0d0
Reply
#16
RE: Atheism feels shunned...
(July 12, 2009 at 3:18 am)Purple Rabbit Wrote: Then define free thought for me.

Does he have to? After all he doesn't claim it exists, others do! I agree with Ev 100% on this one ... the existence of free will (freedom of thought) is an assumption because there is no objective way of assessing whether what we thing is freedom of thought actually exists.

Kyu
Angry Atheism
Where those who are hacked off with the stupidity of irrational belief can vent their feelings!
Come over to the dark side, we have cookies!

Kyuuketsuki, AngryAtheism Owner & Administrator
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#17
RE: Atheism feels shunned...
(July 12, 2009 at 6:15 am)Kyuuketsuki Wrote:
(July 12, 2009 at 3:18 am)Purple Rabbit Wrote: Then define free thought for me.

Does he have to? After all he doesn't claim it exists, others do! I agree with Ev 100% on this one ... the existence of free will (freedom of thought) is an assumption because there is no objective way of assessing whether what we thing is freedom of thought actually exists.

Kyu
Indeed he has to. He claims that it is has validity to us:
EvidenceVsFaith Wrote:Whatever we call 'free' and 'choices' is what is free and choices 'to us'.

If he claims it has validity in some sense he should be able to give a meaningfull definition.
If he claims (although at the moment it doesn't look so te me) that it has no meaning at all he should avoid the use of the word.
"I'm like a rabbit suddenly trapped, in the blinding headlights of vacuous crap" - Tim Minchin in "Storm"
Christianity is perfect bullshit, christians are not - Purple Rabbit, honouring CS Lewis
Faith is illogical - fr0d0
Reply
#18
RE: Atheism feels shunned...
(July 12, 2009 at 6:57 am)Purple Rabbit Wrote:
(July 12, 2009 at 6:15 am)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: Does he have to? After all he doesn't claim it exists, others do! I agree with Ev 100% on this one ... the existence of free will (freedom of thought) is an assumption because there is no objective way of assessing whether what we thing is freedom of thought actually exists.
Indeed he has to. He claims that it is has validity to us:

I don't think he does because he's not the one claiming free will exists. I agree with him.

Kyu
Angry Atheism
Where those who are hacked off with the stupidity of irrational belief can vent their feelings!
Come over to the dark side, we have cookies!

Kyuuketsuki, AngryAtheism Owner & Administrator
Reply
#19
RE: Atheism feels shunned...
(July 12, 2009 at 9:29 am)Kyuuketsuki Wrote:
(July 12, 2009 at 6:57 am)Purple Rabbit Wrote:
(July 12, 2009 at 6:15 am)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: Does he have to? After all he doesn't claim it exists, others do! I agree with Ev 100% on this one ... the existence of free will (freedom of thought) is an assumption because there is no objective way of assessing whether what we thing is freedom of thought actually exists.
Indeed he has to. He claims that it is has validity to us:

I don't think he does because he's not the one claiming free will exists. I agree with him.

Kyu
Well EvF, does free will exist? And if so, how would you define it?
"I'm like a rabbit suddenly trapped, in the blinding headlights of vacuous crap" - Tim Minchin in "Storm"
Christianity is perfect bullshit, christians are not - Purple Rabbit, honouring CS Lewis
Faith is illogical - fr0d0
Reply
#20
RE: Atheism feels shunned...
(July 12, 2009 at 9:46 am)Purple Rabbit Wrote:
(July 12, 2009 at 9:29 am)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: I don't think he does because he's not the one claiming free will exists. I agree with him.
Well EvF, does free will exist? And if so, how would you define it?

Um ... I already know he doesn't specifically claim it exists but more to the point it is YOU (as the presumed claimant) who does therefore just as we all do with the theists it is YOU that must define it and justify it's supposed existence. Ev doesn't have to justify a damned thing.

Kyu
Angry Atheism
Where those who are hacked off with the stupidity of irrational belief can vent their feelings!
Come over to the dark side, we have cookies!

Kyuuketsuki, AngryAtheism Owner & Administrator
Reply



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