America's War on Drugs

[cratehorus]

Soon, the people on the streets will not be ashamed of eachother anymore, and the streets will turn into a pile of every depraved vice and lawlessness.

I disagree....

[kılıç_mehmet]

Yeah, because I'm sure that no one in your culture partakes in intoxicants as a family.

Alcohol is one thing, but we all know our limits. Besides, we do not partake in excessive alcohol in front of our elders.

. Ever enjoy a little Raki with the family, or know people who do? Or some of your local wines? Do you judge yourself (if you drink) or them so harshly?

We do, but alcohol is one thing, and marijuana is another. Let's compare a family dinner with raki to a family bong party. Right, they are similar. Besides, our elders always tell us to abstain from bad things, whereas this man's elder has no objections of his grand-nephew smoking a hallucinogenic drug before his eyes, which is something I deem to be an unabashed form of behaviour.

As I recall, while illegal, frowned upon by both Islam and secular authorities, and perhaps not currently in vogue, use of hashish has been part of Turkish and middle eastern culture for millennia.

It really doesn't matter. Hashish and opium were, as a matter of fact, a common drug during a period in Turkish history, whereas many Sultans have enacted strict bans on the coffee-house culture with which this poison was given to our people, mostly in big cities like Istanbul. But enough of history. I can tell you more if you'd want to hear it, but later.

Our family is a family of well-behaved, well-mannered and well-educated people with a good reputation. Religious taboos were never a too strictly enforced thing in our family, yet our customs and culture(even during the times when opium was commonly eaten) does not allow for such psychedelic and hallucinogenic drugs to be used within the vicinity of family members, or within generic society.
Even if a person of my family were to use drugs, we would have no knowledge of it, for he'd hide it out of his shame, and once we'd learn it, we'd active seek to free him from this vice of his, not tell him "That's okay, lemme take a hit.".

Perhaps you think marijuana and alcohol are somehow different? That catching a buzz from a fermented or distilled beverage is somehow morally superior than from smoking or otherwise ingesting a naturally growing herb?

Yes, now comes this so called "naturalist" argument. Not everything that is natural is good. Nor is everything that is "unnatural" as you say it, bad.
Besides, these two don't have the same effects.

In my experience, they are different only in that alcohol abuse is a much greater social ill than marijuana abuse.

That's due to the rightful stigma attached to marijuana use, and the fact that it's not easily available in stores. If it were to be legalized, I'm sure that we'd have another ban coming for it right away.

I'd like to have a world where no one would have to resort to things like marijuana to have an artificially induced dopamine release, but I guess we don't live in such a world, and some people are desperate to find happiness in small things like drugs. Not even alcohol, for alcohol too, is not something that should be glorified even when faced with things like psychedelic and hallucinogenic drugs.
But social and governmental laws exist therefore to protect the people when the people are too weak to protect themselves.
Anyone who wants to ruin his life with the usage of drugs can do so. But he does not have the right to ruin other people's lives by making marijuana, or any other drug appear to be "good" and "acceptable" to the public, or advocating it's legal sale and production.

Lol! No really I did laugh, because me and a family member smoke "Marijuana" together the whole world is doomed there will be rape, murder and all sorts of vile debauchery meanwhile skeletons will pile up in the streets.

Lol as much as you want to. I'm just giving you and your grand-uncle as an example of how drugs and drug users have become shameless as to do their thing in front of their fellow family members.
Like if you two were of the same age, and like cousins or something, I'd probably had not given the same reaction. But this behavour of yours transcends all elder-youth relations and limits, especially those within family.
And once these are done with, we'll be having every kind of vice in the streets. Besides, I did not speak of murder or rape-they already happen in the streets. However they are deemed to be a crime, and are severely punished by the law. You on the other hand show no shame in smoking that drug of yours in front of your elder. What shame would you have in doing it in front of the public?
Worse, your elder has no such shame.
Although I must admit I've heard of worse on the internet. People who smoke marijuana with their parents, sisters, brothers and etc.

. I'm sorry but "Marijuana" has been around for a very long time

Does that change the fact that it's a socially destructive drug?

and society has always been fine with it.

And therefore it was illegalized almost everywhere. Some countries have even the death penaly for it if you're caught possessing it.
Always been fine? Your marijuana is not so different from other drugs like opiates and cocaine and etc. Psychedelic and hallucinogenic drugs have been around for a long time now, but no one really praised them in front of the public, nor deemed them something good for the society as to actually allow their widespread use. I've already said before, opium, a drug very similar to marijuana when eaten/smoked was banned in China, which resulted in wars!
And during that time, opium usage was strictly banned in England, Scotland and Ireland, with harsh punishments while the poison was sold elsewhere.

Why I am so harsh with you is because the way you behave about drugs is a dangerous way to behave. Previously, drugs were something that had to be done in secrecy, away from family members.
Even things like cigarettes which lack the mind-altering abilities of marijuana would be smoked in secrecy, away from family members, and were a reason of shame when discovered. But obviously, something which is like marijuana is now brandished as something good for you. Parents shouldn't be mad when they catch their children smoking marijuana in their rooms, they should instead smoke along with them. Because marijuana is better than cigarettes, right? I saw it on a chart, no one has died from marijuana yet!
Such tales are tales of children. You fool yourselves with these lies, while spreading misinformation that poison and cloud the minds of people who have not fallen into the trap of illegal drugs.

No when I smoke I am not ashamed, in fact I tend to treat other's with more respect, gratitude and do constructive things I would normally not want to.

Constructive my ass. Like what, writing song lyrics?
I bet you're going to tell me that you are better at math when you smoke marijuana, eh? Or something along these lines. Really, I think that shit has melted half-way through your brain to think that marijuana actually makes you somewhat "constructive".

Sorry If I become a calmer, more sincere, non violent, happy and constructive person for smoking "Marijuana".

If you need a drug to become a calm, sincere, non-violent, happy and constructive person, you don't need marijuana, you need a shrink, friend.
You need to be on medicine, if that drug is all that keeps you from being deceptive, angry, violent and sad person. Really, I think you're seriously fooling yourself. You only smoke marijuana to become happy or do something with your excessive free time, for people only resort to drugs if they are either physically/emotionally addicted, or if they're so fucking bored due to the large amounts of empty leisure time, that they need something that makes time go faster, or more enjoyably. Constructive, I bet you finish your homework in an hour after smoking a blunt, yes.

It's just a better alternative to using "Prescription" drug's which are not meant to fix the problem but slightly make it a little better so you continue to need them and never go back to 100% health.

Pseudo-science mania never seems to end, man. If you think that you do not need to continue to smoke marijuana, you fool yourself.

Really, like all these Psychiatrist are all fraudelent, and give their patients prescription drugs instead of the one true solution to life's problems. Marijuana. And they do this because they're agents of the pharmacy industry, and don't want the truth about marijuana to be known, yea.

---

Soon, the people on the streets will not be ashamed of eachother anymore, and the streets will turn into a pile of every depraved vice and lawlessness.

I disagree....

Naruhodo.
Tell me then.

[cratehorus]

Alcohol is one thing, but we all know our limits. Besides, we do not partake in excessive alcohol in front of our elders.

Alcohol is worse than marijuana

We do, but alcohol is one thing, and marijuana is another. Let's compare a family dinner with raki to a family bong party. Right, they are similar. Besides, our elders always tell us to abstain from bad things, whereas this man's elder has no objections of his grand-nephew smoking a hallucinogenic drug before his eyes, which is something I deem to be an unabashed form of behaviour.

Alcohol impairs judgement far worse than Marijuana. You do not need "bongs" there are many smokeless forms of marijuana from edibles, to tea, to vaprizors.

It really doesn't matter. Hashish and opium were, as a matter of fact, a common drug during a period in Turkish history, whereas many Sultans have enacted strict bans on the coffee-house culture with which this poison was given to our people, mostly in big cities like Istanbul. But enough of history. I can tell you more if you'd want to hear it, but later.

Marijuana (hashish)........... and Heroin (opium).......... are nowhere near the same thing you're an idiot if you think otherwise

Our family is a family of well-behaved, well-mannered and well-educated people with a good reputation. Religious taboos were never a too strictly enforced thing in our family, yet our customs and culture(even during the times when opium was commonly eaten) does not allow for such psychedelic and hallucinogenic drugs to be used within the vicinity of family members, or within generic society.
Even if a person of my family were to use drugs, we would have no knowledge of it, for he'd hide it out of his shame, and once we'd learn it, we'd active seek to free him from this vice of his, not tell him "That's okay, lemme take a hit.".

It's insane (too me) that you think eating opium is okay as long as it's not in front of kids, but youre chastizing Cthulu Dreaming for smoking weed, with his parents, if you weren't Turkish I'd assume you were mentally insane to admit this

Yes, now comes this so called "naturalist" argument. Not everything that is natural is good. Nor is everything that is "unnatural" as you say it, bad.
Besides, these two don't have the same effects.

I actually agree with you here, peyote, cocaine, and as we said before, opium is all natural.... I 100% fully support marijuana legalization but i hate this "all natural" argument.....salt is all natural you can still kill yourself with it

That's due to the rightful stigma attached to marijuana use, and the fact that it's not easily available in stores. If it were to be legalized, I'm sure that we'd have another ban coming for it right away.

In America weed is easier to get as a teenager than alcohol......

I'd like to have a world where no one would have to resort to things like marijuana to have an artificially induced dopamine release, but I guess we don't live in such a world, and some people are desperate to find happiness in small things like drugs. Not even alcohol, for alcohol too, is not something that should be glorified even when faced with things like psychedelic and hallucinogenic drugs.
But social and governmental laws exist therefore to protect the people when the people are too weak to protect themselves.
Anyone who wants to ruin his life with the usage of drugs can do so. But he does not have the right to ruin other people's lives by making marijuana, or any other drug appear to be "good" and "acceptable" to the public, or advocating it's legal sale and production.

so just say you're "against any and all drugs or intoxicants including sugar and caffeine" nobody will have a problem with it, but singling out marijuana as worse than alcohol is fucking retarded

Lol as much as you want to. I'm just giving you and your grand-uncle as an example of how drugs and drug users have become shameless as to do their thing in front of their fellow family members.
Like if you two were of the same age, and like cousins or something, I'd probably had not given the same reaction. But this behavour of yours transcends all elder-youth relations and limits, especially those within family.
And once these are done with, we'll be having every kind of vice in the streets. Besides, I did not speak of murder or rape-they already happen in the streets. However they are deemed to be a crime, and are severely punished by the law. You on the other hand show no shame in smoking that drug of yours in front of your elder. What shame would you have in doing it in front of the public?
Worse, your elder has no such shame.
Although I must admit I've heard of worse on the internet. People who smoke marijuana with their parents, sisters, brothers and etc.

sorry in the West were not brain washed to worship our parents and hide things from them most of us are completely open and honest with our parents and relatives

And therefore it was illegalized almost everywhere. Some countries have even the death penaly for it if you're caught possessing it.
Always been fine? Your marijuana is not so different from other drugs like opiates and cocaine and etc. Psychedelic and hallucinogenic drugs have been around for a long time now, but no one really praised them in front of the public, nor deemed them something good for the society as to actually allow their widespread use. I've already said before, opium, a drug very similar to marijuana when eaten/smoked was banned in China, which resulted in wars!
And during that time, opium usage was strictly banned in England, Scotland and Ireland, with harsh punishments while the poison was sold elsewhere.

Why I am so harsh with you is because the way you behave about drugs is a dangerous way to behave. Previously, drugs were something that had to be done in secrecy, away from family members.
Even things like cigarettes which lack the mind-altering abilities of marijuana would be smoked in secrecy, away from family members, and were a reason of shame when discovered. But obviously, something which is like marijuana is now brandished as something good for you. Parents shouldn't be mad when they catch their children smoking marijuana in their rooms, they should instead smoke along with them. Because marijuana is better than cigarettes, right? I saw it on a chart, no one has died from marijuana yet!
Such tales are tales of children. You fool yourselves with these lies, while spreading misinformation that poison and cloud the minds of people who have not fallen into the trap of illegal drugs.

you're filled with fear and lies, I don't know where to start with this load of crap, I'll wait until you respond to the rest

[frankiej]

I don't see what the problem is... I have caused waaaaay more trouble when I have been drunk than when I have been high. I don't do anything when I'm high... I can't really.

I can't really play my guitar when I'm drunk either, but I can bust out all the usual shit when I'm high... weed is just better in every way.

[The Grand Nudger]

See, I have a similar problem but in reverse, when I'm drunk I go beastmode on nubs and shit all over their face up and down LOL, but get me high and I can't hit that bunker 200m away..instead I'm unloading the belt on a lamp-post directly above my position......I think it might have something to do with a lack of focus.

[Faith No More]

Your marijuana is not so different from other drugs like opiates and cocaine and etc. Psychedelic and hallucinogenic drugs have been around for a long time now, but no one really praised them in front of the public, nor deemed them something good for the society as to actually allow their widespread use. I've already said before, opium, a drug very similar to marijuana when eaten/smoked was banned in China, which resulted in wars!

You accuse others of disseminating misinformation, yet you claim that opium and marijuana are 'very similar.' The fact that you can't understand the difference betweeb a mild hallucinogen and an opiate, proves that you are arguing from ignorance and your preconceived bias. Leave this conversation to those of us that actually understand the concepts being discussed.

[The Grand Nudger]

To be completely fair, I can't see what the big deal is about using opiates or hallucinogens. Don't we have to reference something in conjunction before we can start to make value judgements or proclamations of morality or legality. Using hallucinogens/opiates - and driving a car, for example. Seems to me we already have laws in place for just these circumstances with regards to the drugs that are socially/legally acceptable. You can drink, for example...but you can't drink and drive.

[Tiberius]

My opinion: I do not believe the government has a right to tell you what you can or cannot do to your own body. I support the legalisation of all substances. Current laws involving alcohol can be expanded to include such substances.

[festive1]

I'd just like to point out that what is being debated in Washington state is the legalization of marijuana. This does not extend to growing or producing marijuana, that will only be allowed by government approved growers. It's a slippery slope to say that legalizing marijuana would lead to the legalization of opium/heroin or cocaine. One does not necessarily lead to the next.
In the 1970's America's prison population was around 300,000 people. Today it's almost 2.3 million, largely due to "victimless" crimes such as drug distribution. That's more people in prison in the US than in China (#2 with 1.6 million people imprisoned out of a billion+ population). What's more is the US's prison population is disproportionately made up of minorities, something that is unseen in other, far more repressive regimes than the US. This coexists with the fact that whites and minorities commit crimes (including "victimless" drug crimes) at roughly the same rates. Yet, minorities are far more likely to be arrested, tried, and convicted of crimes, especially felonies. I would say that incarcerating 2.3 million people has a more negative impact on society, especially if these people are convicted of felony crimes which prevents them from voting, from obtaining future employment, and limits the government resources they are eligible for, than the legalization of the drug for which they were incarcerated.
If any drug is legalized is it's use amongst the population going to increase? Probably. But in the case of marijuana, it is less harmful than drugs that are currently legal (ie. alcohol). I've seen some raging drunks in my day, but no raging stoners. By raging, I mean violent, volatile, and angry (okay, I've seen angry stoners, but they seem to just complain rather than take violent action). Should it be regulated? Yes. Should it be taxed? Definitely. Should underage sale be prohibited? Yes, but that doesn't mean those underage will be unable to obtain marijuana, much like they get alcohol today.

[5thHorseman]

Though anything but a libertarian, I do agree with legalisation. War on drugs costs nothing but money and lives. Places like Columbia and Mexico would probably(almost definitely in Mexico's case) be much better if they were working for proper businesses and not criminal gangs.

Plus, you can't stop people getting drugs, i've not done anything for years but I still know enough people to get cocaine/cannabis/speed/ecstacy delivered to my door within an hour.

I'd legalise it, then tax it. Win-win scenario, no more wasting money on trying to find it, and money coming in from tax revenue. Also police would actually go back to being on the beat.