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Stop me from chasing religion, for the love of G- oh...
#1
Sad 
Stop me from chasing religion, for the love of G- oh...
Hello,

I am not accustomed to joining new forums and making introductory posts such as these, but just as an alcoholic, or anyone fighting an addiction, stands before the crowd, introduces himself, and admits his problem before any healing can begin, so must I.

My username is kindofblue, and I am addicted to religion. I grew up in a secular household and lived as an agnostic throughout college. After graduating, I was not happy with my life. Weighed down by the depressing thought that there was no point to the universe, I alienated myself from my peers. I did not enjoy their pleasures, which I viewed as empty, temporal pleasures. As you can surmise, I was ripe for the religious's picking.

I went to Israel, expecting nothing more than a free trip but returning with a unquenchable desire to reconnect with my roots. I joined the Orthodox Jews, and though I felt strong resistance regarding their attitudes towards women, homosexuals, non-Jews, and liberals (God help you, Ellen Degeneres), as well as their cosmological theories, I stuck with them for almost two years. Why? Because I was convinced that I was wicked and stupid, and that God and the sages he left for us knew better. So I kept the Sabbath even though it killed what was left of my social life, ate kosher even though it meant never sharing a meal with my heathen family members again, and grew my beard even though it was really, really, itchy. And I prayed three times a day, wore tefillin, the whole song and dance (oh, I actually sang and danced too).

I started seeing a therapist about the difficulties I had with the faith and the people who practiced it. That led to a clinical diagnosis of obsessive-compulsive disorder, or OCD. It wasn't long before I put two and two together: my desire for religious belief and ritual was nothing more than a manifestation of my very real mental disorder. One night, while still in treatment, I decided that I had been living in a delusion, and I left.

If only it were that simple.

I tried to fill the "God-shaped" hole with science and reason. I devoured the works of Dawkins, Hitchens, and Sagan. They helped me see my folly, but they could not help me out of the predicament I was in before I became religious: that I could find no hope to live in a random and meaningless world.

So slowly, as the episodes of Cosmos tapered off, I started wondering again... maybe I just went things in the wrong way? Maybe there really was a purpose, even a God, even the SAME God that I refused. That's when I turned to Christianity.

I found many things to like, that would convince me to give religion another go. Many Christian denominations (including Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox, the two I most seriously considered) did not read the Bible literally, and were okay with the idea of evolution. They believed all men were equal in the eyes of God (whereas the Jews view themselves as inherently superior to the goyim). They taught forgiveness and the power of redemption (God didn't expect me to fulfill his 613 commandments to be saved, He would save me because he loved me). I learned to stop listening to the OCD-ridden voices in my head and accept that God was beyond all human thought, and so beyond my own self-condemnations and doubts. I was willing to accept the mystery of faith.

But then ugliness appeared once more. I couldn't ignore the Christian's view towards sexuality, no matter how well phrased. I couldn't ignore the history of the Church, and the countless mistakes it made, white-washed by PR. Was I really wrong about my views? Did I really need to go through a period of mental cleansing and straight-up forgetting before I could feel comfortable as a Christian? I couldn't remain on the fence and adopt a moderate route -- I'm an Orthodox person by nature. Either these things happened and these teachings were true, or they weren't.

This struggle led to difficulties accepting anything. Did God really descend to earth as man and die on the cross to save us, or is that story adapted from similar myths of the time, which practically no one in the world believes now? And there are dead saints all around us, and if we ask them, they'll pray for us? Concerned about these questions I had, I put down the Bible (for the second time) and started reading what the scientists had to say. Then, more doubts, more alternative explanations that fit better with the world I lived in.

So now I'm sort of at a precipice, and I'm teetering back and forth by the hour. This morning, I was reading Christian apologetics. By lunch time, I was watching Bill Mager's Religulous and slapping my forehead.

Sometimes, I tell myself, "Forget it, you're religious and you just need to work through these doubts." Other times, it's, "Forget it, you don't believe any of this and you just need to work through these delusions." Meanwhile, I've opened contact with two priests, who are eager to assist me in a spiritual journey I'm already half-regretting. This teeter-tottering isn't just affecting my own life anymore.

Obviously, since I'm writing this post, I'm in the "you don't believe any of this" cycle right now (but who knows where I'll be in a few hours?). So I ask you, how do you live with being an atheist? How do you prevent yourself from turning to superstition? How does the atheist attain solace with a neutral, uncaring universe? These are not "bait" questions. I really have yet to hear from an atheist on these matters.

I think the main reason why I keep teetering towards religion is because I'm scared shitless of a world without a God or a purpose. It's easy to mask my failures and shortcomings with the idea that "everything is happening as it should be." But if I really am the master of my own fate -- holy shit, that's scary. That's not something I think I can handle. But if that's the case, well, I'm gonna have to do something.

I'm not looking for proof from either side; I've investigated all the proof I care for. What this comes down to is really faith -- what do I, given the evidence before me, think actually happened? And, given that answer, how, then, do I live?
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#2
RE: Stop me from chasing religion, for the love of G- oh...
Living as an atheist is quite lovely. I can fuck my girlfriend without wondering if big brother is watching. I have children out of wedlock as I feel marriage is redundant, and i care little for what others think of me. I do not fear death as when it comes I will not know about it. I sleep in on sundays and no priest tries to get my sons to touch him. Of which my sons are as greatful as I.

I avoid becoming religious because it makes promises that no one can possibly know. I avoid it because it stems from bronze age books twice/thrice translated and edited. I avoid it because there is no evidence for any of its claims.
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#3
RE: Stop me from chasing religion, for the love of G- oh...
First of all, welcome

(September 10, 2012 at 5:22 pm)kindofblue Wrote: how do you live with being an atheist?

Happily, It's not as though being an atheist instantly makes you completely miserable nor is there really much reason for you to. I am completely free of deities and I don't think I could be happier. There is a lot of talk of the morally vacuous atheist, which is appropriate to your question, but this is certainly not true and reading into moral philosophy is simply the best way to cancel a lot of religion-based anxiety when admitting such things to oneself (biased opinion, but a valid one nonetheless).

However, there is little that can be given in answer to this question with its current ambiguity, how about you break it down for me/us? Smile
Religion is an attempt to answer the philosophical questions of the unphilosophical man.
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#4
RE: Stop me from chasing religion, for the love of G- oh...
Living as an atheist is surprisingly simple; all you need concern yourself with is getting on with living. That's it. The actual atheism part is really a non-factor, unless you have to conceal your atheism for practical reasons. Yes, the Universe is cold and uncaring about the activities of those funny little carbon-based lifeforms infesting a small blue-green planet whirling around a small unregarded yellow sun in the unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of a nondescript galaxy. In fact the Universe is so vastly, amazingly, mind-bobblingly huge that words such as "vastly, amazingly, mind-bobblingly huge" don't even so much as scratch the surface. Fortunately we don't have to deal with the Universe at that level. All we need concern ourselves with is being allowed to go about our daily business, trusting in return that we don't impede or prevent others from going theirs.

No shepherds, no eye-in-the-sky, no Big Brother. Just humans interacting on a human level with other humans. Why should that be scary?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist.  This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair.  Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second.  That means there's a situation vacant.'
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#5
RE: Stop me from chasing religion, for the love of G- oh...
(September 10, 2012 at 6:22 pm)Stimbo Wrote: the unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of a nondescript galaxy.

Wut? Was that finite direction...in space? I am calling bullshit right there.
But otherwise I am in agreement with you
Religion is an attempt to answer the philosophical questions of the unphilosophical man.
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#6
RE: Stop me from chasing religion, for the love of G- oh...
(September 10, 2012 at 6:32 pm)liam Wrote:
(September 10, 2012 at 6:22 pm)Stimbo Wrote: the unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of a nondescript galaxy.

Wut? Was that finite direction...in space? I am calling bullshit right there.
But otherwise I am in agreement with you

Technically, it's the Orion-Cygnus arm. Stimbo's quoting or paraphrasing Douglas Adams, however.
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#7
RE: Stop me from chasing religion, for the love of G- oh...
Never heard of Douglas Adams, I gather? I was referencing for effect.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist.  This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair.  Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second.  That means there's a situation vacant.'
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#8
RE: Stop me from chasing religion, for the love of G- oh...
You should try to muster up the courage and patience to face whatever you deep down believe is true.

Personally, I deeply believe in God, objective morality, free-will, and find this all to be a foundation of my human experience, and so rooted in me that I can't disbelieve in any of these 3 no matter how much I try.

I also don't think objective morality is possible without God.

I however don't believe in any religion.

I think religion is not needed for spirituality or belief in God.

Perhaps you are searching spirituality and for God in the wrong places which will at the end only distance yourself from both.
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#9
RE: Stop me from chasing religion, for the love of G- oh...
(September 10, 2012 at 6:36 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Never heard of Douglas Adams, I gather? I was referencing for effect.

By the by.... This OP looks kinda familiar........ Thinking

Problems with a time-machine and a contraceptive, eh Stimbo??
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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#10
RE: Stop me from chasing religion, for the love of G- oh...
Duel Touché!
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist.  This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair.  Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second.  That means there's a situation vacant.'
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