Why I am skeptic

[Faith Tester]

I was raised by a moderate Muslim family. Religion was still a pretty big deal while growing up. The moment I realized (not very long ago) that Koran is nothing but a collection of myths and stories passed down generation to generation. I also realized that there is nothing new in Islam. More than 70% of all Islamic traditions and Islamic ways of worship are taken directly from Pagan Arabs. I started to read Koran more as a book as opposed to reading it as a divine revelation. I realized that there is nothing fascinating about Koran. In fact Koran is very contradictory in itself, as it has conflicting views on the same subject at various places within the Koran.

I started to explore other faiths. What really shook me was the fact that all religions are identical.
Every religion has a Holy God, a Holy Dead man, a Holy Scripture and a concept of fear/punishment and reward. This made me come to a realization that religion is merely manipulation of afraid and ignorant people. That is how it started, but now it is so sacred, so divine, so holy that even the most learned men of all believe in it. When it comes to religion, people only see what they want to see and people only hear what they want to hear.

I would rather believe in something than have faith in it.

But I still 'think' that there is a higher being (he is definitely not the Muslim. Christian/ Jewish God). Whether he is an intelligent designer or a supreme deity, I do not know. I really want to find out though.

[Tiberius]

Well I for one applaud you for breaking away from Islam; from what I hear, the feat is not particularly easy, and not many people actually do it.

What I would question is why you still "think" there is a higher being? What has led you to this conclusion? I look forward to having some interesting discussion

[Faith Tester]

I think there has to be a higher being who designed and created the universe and our earth. Even if there was a big bang, I think it might have been caused by someone. I would lov eto hav eyour views about it.
Keep in mind though it is not a debate, I am trying to learn that is all.

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Plus I do understand that I cannot provide any evidence that God actually exists. It is just a theory, unproved. You being an agnostic do not have to believe it

[Tiberius]

Ok, but what evidence (physical or reasoning) do you have to believe that? I mean, I could say that I think there are unicorns in the Rocky Mountains, but people wouldn't (generally) believe me unless I gave them evidence and reasoning.

My views are that the Big Bang was the start of the universe as it is today; it was (or rather is) a rapid expansion of space time. Before that, we cannot say anything due to the nature of the universe (or rather how we understand the nature of the universe).

However just because we cannot explain what happened before the Big Bang (or even if there was a "before" the Big Bang), does not mean that this gives any credibility to the idea that God somehow exists.

[Rhizomorph13]

Adrian,

They could totally exist AND yield no evidence if they were both invisible and pink. And so this is not just a total troll post...

FT,

Your argument about the big bang is one from incredulity i.e., "Nothing couldn't just suddenly become something, therefore there must have been a god." As Adrian points out, there is no way we can really know what happened so why place god there as an explaination when nothing works just as well.

Personally I think the beginning of the universe is the mootest of points because no hypothesis is testable and no matter what the reality is, the fact remains that we are here.

I just want to see some manifestation of God's existence and then I would be happy to believe.

Rhizo

[Faith Tester]

In other words if there is not strong evidence in existence of God, there is no God. But can we observe patterns around us and come up with a hypothesis?

I understand where you guys are coming from. At the same time, don't you think it leaves us a little clueless?

Finding answers is in human nature. But that does not mean that one should create a vague Super Being in one's mind. I was looking at the intelligent design theory and it made some sense (definitely more sense than the Muslim Allah and the Christian God). What are your guys views on this theory.


Plus I am gonna hit the bed now, it is almost 2 in the morning. We will definitely resume our discussion tomorrow. Thank you guys. bye

[Kyuuketsuki]

Even though I don't personally believe it I'd go as far as admitting it is a possibility (to me very minor, to you somewhat more so) that there is a creator god inasmuch as we don't know as yet how the universe came to be but rail against the kind that keeps an eye on us, guides us, acts on our universe because I maintain that would leave trails of evidence.

Like Adrian I applaud you breaking away from the religion of your birth, no doubt it was a lot more difficult to do so than it was for me (and I don't think that was easy).

Kyu

[Tiberius]

In other words if there is not strong evidence in existence of God, there is no God.

No. I never said "there is no God". I am an atheist; I do not believe there is a god. I make no claims to actual knowledge (I am also an agnostic).

If there is not strong evidence for the existence of god, there is no strong reason to believe in the existence of god. That is a view I would agree with.

But can we observe patterns around us and come up with a hypothesis?

Of course; as long as people admit that it is a hypothesis; merely an idea.

I understand where you guys are coming from. At the same time, don't you think it leaves us a little clueless?

Nothing wrong with being clueless if there are no clues.

Finding answers is in human nature. But that does not mean that one should create a vague Super Being in one's mind. I was looking at the intelligent design theory and it made some sense (definitely more sense than the Muslim Allah and the Christian God). What are your guys views on this theory.

Intelligent Design theory is not a theory. It may claim to be, but it simply isn't. It has provided no evidence other than "oooh, this looks designed", and there is a big difference between something that looks designed and something that is designed. They use the a modification of the argument "If something is designed, it must have a designer", yet whilst this is perfectly true, you first need to prove something is designed before you can even begin to ascertain the identity of the designer.

I.D does not give any methods or mechanisms by which to ascertain what is designed or not (and there are many things in nature which look designed but which we know are formed by natural forces), or by which to find who the designer is.

[Rockthatpiano06]

The one thing that led me to become an atheist is this. You say there has to be some intelligent designer because its too big of a coincedence that the universe is how it is BUT if you are saying something has to create everything, then what created god? if you are saying god has always been there, then there it is just as plausible (or in my opinion, more plasible) to believe the universe was created without a god.

[Faith Tester]

I agree with most of what you said Adrain (I couldn't disagree after you presented your arguments in such an orderly manner). Design Theory is not a theory agreed, because it has no evidence supporting it.
Rockthatpiano06, You are right even if there is a God, it has to be created by someone else. And if he is not created by someone then the universe could have created itself too.

We do know that there are certain limitations on this earth. All occurrences are governed by certain laws: physical laws ,chemical laws, biological laws. These laws are initiated by some sort of forces. Like gravity. Electro-Magnetic forces etc.

Is it possible that these forces and many other forces are the ones that control our universe? This is just a thought that, what if these forces not only influence our physical world, but they play a part in forming our emotions too. In that case will I be correct in calling these superior forces, a superior deity?