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Christianity and Islam, religions of peace or war.
#1
Christianity and Islam, religions of peace or war.
This is a really interesting article I came across while looking into the effects of religion on wars. I personally don't believe any religious person wants to commit to war, but when you get war the enemy you fight is instantly demonized by what your religion define's as demonic or vile. Your enemy must be smite'd because he has committed every sin in the book, he is the projected view of what you would call the devil.

Islam

Is it a religion of violence or of peace

There is no consensus on the nature of Islam.

Some state that Islam is a religion of peace and moderation, "which is tolerant and encourages inter-religious dialogue for the benefit of humanity:" 1 For example:

The President of the United States from 2000 to 2008, George W. Bush, has emphasized that "Islam is Peace" on a number of occasions. 2

A sizeable percentage of North Americans view Islam in a positive light. The Pew Research Center for the People & the Press conducted a public opinion poll among 1,500 adults on 2001-NOV-13 to 19. Americans, particularly "conservative Republicans" repudiated an unfavorable view of Islam. The survey found that:

The percentage of Americans with a favorable view of Muslims rose from 45% in May to 59% in November.

The percentage of conservative Republicans with a favorable view of Muslims rose from 35% to 64%! 3

John L. Esposito, one of America's foremost authorities and interpreters of Islam, rejects as far too simplistic the concept that Islam is a militant, expansionist, and rabidly anti-American religion. In his book: "The Islamic Threat: Myth or Reality," he demonstrates the diversity of the Islamic resurgence -- and the mistakes our analysts make in assuming a hostile, monolithic Islam. 4
Others, particularly Fundamentalist Christians, believe that Islam is a religion of hatred and warfare:

Jerry Falwell said that "...Muhammad was a terrorist. I've read enough of the history of his life written by both Muslims and non-Muslims, that he was a violent man, a man of war." 6,7 That particular comment triggered a riot in India which killed at least 14 people.

The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) singled out leading evangelical Christian "Franklin Graham who has claimed that terrorism is part of 'mainstream' Islam and that the Quran, Islam's revealed text, 'preaches violence.' Graham also called Islam an 'evil and wicked religion.' "

CAIR listed two additional leading conservative Christian pastors -- Pat Robertson and Chuck Colson -- who, they say, "have echoed Graham's Islamophobic smears."

The CAIR listed a number of socially conservative commentators such as William Lind, who suggests that American Muslims “...should be encouraged to leave [the U.S.]. They are a fifth column in this country.” Also listed were Ann Coulter, Jerry Vines, and Paul Weyrich.

Conservative Christian author and radio pastor Dave Hunt claims: "...there are more than 100 verses in the Qur'an advocating the use of violence to spread Islam. In the Qur'an, Allah commands Muslims, 'Take not the Jews and Christians as friends....Slay the idolaters [non-Muslims] wherever ye find them.... Fight against such...as believe not in Allah...' (Surah 5:51; 9:5,29,41, etc..). Though most Muslims would shrink from obeying such commands, this is official Islam and it cannot change without admitting that Muhammad was a false prophet and murderer." 5

Which point of view is right?

They both are.

Islam, like Christianity, is not a homogenous religion. It is divided into many subgroups, including Sunni, Shi'ite, and Sufi. A very small, radical, hate-filled, extremist, fundamentalist, terrorist wing does exist. Many follow a fundamentalist version of Islam called Wahhabi. So too does a much larger peaceful, moderate wing. Unfortunately, the former seem to capture all the media's attention, while the latter is rarely heard from.

It obvious that no one individual speaks for all Muslims. Islam has no single central human authority, comparable to the pope and Vatican for the Roman Catholic Church, or to various General Assemblies and the Lambeth Conferences for the Anglican Communion. Rather, it is divided into many traditions and schools.

This phenomenon is true of most religions. Consider the over 1,000 Christian groups in North America. They include some hate-filled groups as well:

The Christian Identity movement.

Various white supremacist organizations which usually consider themselves to be Christians.

The terrorists who blew up the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City.
The spread of terrorism within Islam appears to be due to the presence and interaction of a number of factors:

A general renaissance of the religion of Islam throughout North Africa, the Middle East and parts of Asia.

The after-effects of previous colonial oppression of Muslim countries.

Authoritarian dictatorships in the Middle East -- many of which are artificially propped up with American foreign policy -- with their depressing record of corruption, civil rights violations, and low standard of living. This results in a loss of hope among their public.

The lack of separation between religion and the state in Muslim countries.


Three main conflicts:

One of overwhelming importance in the Middle East is between Jews and Muslims. It involves Israel, the Gaza Strip, the occupied territories, the future of Jerusalem, and the right of return for Arabs and other Muslims who fled when the state of Israel was declared by the United Nations in 1948. The eventual terms of settlement are obvious to all commentators and politicians. However, it cannot be agreed to by the groups involved because each side would first have to give up more concessions that their public will currently tolerate.

One in Sudan between the predominately Muslim north and the predominately Christian and Animist south. This conflict has resulted in the deaths of at least two million persons and a major flow of refugees. However, a path towards peace is being implemented and a plebescite in the south of the country was successfully conducted in early 2011. A reasonably peaceful separation into two countries may result.

One between Hindus and Muslims in in Kashmir. This is a state claimed by both India, a predominately Hindu country, and Pakistan, a predominately Muslim country. Again, the solution is obvious: to allow the people of Kashmir to determine their own future through a plebescite: to join India, to join Pakistan, to become an independent state, or to split Kasmir along the existing Line of Control and have one part join India and the other join Pakistan. However, international law has not been developed that allows countries to amicably split.


Christianity and War

don't suppose there is anything I write and speak about with more fervor than the biblical, economic, and political fallacies of religious people. This is especially true regarding the general subject of Christianity and war. If there is any group of people that should be opposed to war, torture, militarism, the warfare state, state worship, suppression of civil liberties, an imperial presidency, blind nationalism, government propaganda, and an aggressive foreign policy it is Christians, and especially conservative, evangelical, and fundamentalist Christians who claim to strictly follow the dictates of Scripture and worship the Prince of Peace. It is indeed strange that Christian people should be so accepting of war. War is the greatest suppressor of civil liberties. War is the greatest destroyer of religion, morality, and decency. War is the greatest creator of fertile ground for genocides and atrocities. War is the greatest destroyer of families and young lives. War is the greatest creator of famine, disease, and homelessness. War is the health of the state.

But Christianity is in a sad state. In the Church can be found some of the greatest supporters of the state, its leaders, its military, and its wars. Christians who are otherwise good, godly, disciples of Christ often turn into babbling idiots when it comes to the subjects of war, the military, and killing for the state. There is an unholy desire on the part of a great many Christians to legitimize killing in war. There persists the idea among too many Christians that mass killing in war is acceptable, but the killing of one's neighbor violates the sixth commandment's prohibition against killing. Christians who wouldn't think of using the Lord's name in vain blaspheme God when they make ridiculous statements like "God is pro-war." Christians who try never to lie do so with boldness when they claim they are pro-life, but refuse to extend their pro-life sentiments to foreigners already out of the womb. Christians who abhor idols are guilty of idolatry when they say that we should follow the latest dictates of the state because we should always "obey the powers that be." Christians who venerate the Bible handle the word of God deceitfully when they quote Scripture to justify U.S. government wars. Christians who claim to have the mind of Christ show that they have lost their mind when they want the full force of government to protect a stem cell, but have no conscience about U.S. soldiers killing for the government.

There is an unseemly alliance that exists between certain sectors of Christianity and the military. Even Christians who are otherwise sound in the faith, who are not fooled by Bush's pseudo-Christianity and faith-based socialism, who believe that the less government we have the better, who don't support the war in Iraq, and who oppose an aggressive U.S. foreign policy get indignant when you question the institution of the military. Some churches would have no trouble doubling as military recruiting centers. There are Christian colleges that even offer Army ROTC. Most churches fawn over current and former members of the military, not just on Veterans Day, but on other holidays like Memorial Day, Armed Forces Day, and the Fourth of July, and also on special "military appreciation" days that they designate. Well, like those in foreign countries on the receiving end of a U.S. military intervention, I don't appreciate most of what the military does today.

If there is any group within Christianity that should be the most consistent, the most vocal, the most persistent, and the most scriptural in its opposition to war and the warfare state, it is conservative Christians who look to the Bible as their sole authority. Yet, never at any time in history have so many of these Christians held such unholy opinions. The adoration they have toward President Bush is unholy. The association they have with the Republican Party is unholy. The admiration they have for the military is unholy. The thirst they have for war is unholy. The callous attitude they have toward killing foreigners is unholy. The idolatry they manifest toward the state is unholy.

The early Christians were not warmongers and not all Christians today are warmongers. They did not idolize the Caesars like some Christians idolize President Bush. They did not make apologies for the Roman Empire like many Christians do for the U.S. Empire. They did not venerate the institution of the military like most Christians do today. They did not participate in the state's wars like too many Christians do today. If there was anything at all advocated by the early Christians it was peace. After all, they had some New Testament admonitions to go by:

Blessed are the peacemakers (Matthew 5:9)
Live peaceably with all men (Romans 12:18)
Follow peace with all men (Hebrews 12:14)
Live every day as if already dead, that way you're not disappointed when you are. Big Grin
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#2
RE: Christianity and Islam, religions of peace or war.
Islam is the religion of war because its foundations are stained with bloodshed. Christianity at its core is about peace and the early Christians were pacifists, but secular leaders and some corrupt popes lied to the people about what Christianity was actually about...instead of dusting off their feet, they brandished swords; Instead of turning the other cheek, they took off the enemy's head. The downfall of this early form of Christianity was when it went from a persecuted cult to the state religion of an entire empire.
But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, purifies us from all sin.
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#3
RE: Christianity and Islam, religions of peace or war.
I don't see either religions as peaceful or violent. People can use it for violence or peace. It all comes with the territory of following such old texts with many conflicting ideas within them.
Cunt
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#4
RE: Christianity and Islam, religions of peace or war.
If you read Quran, this how it goes:

I am preaching the religion, but there is no force upon anyone to accept it, and everyone can believe or disbelief.
Fight those whom fight you, but if they incline to peace, incline to peace.
The disbelievers kept breaking treaties, so don't uphold the final treaty but attack them, since they have no intentions of keeping this treaty and will attack you as soon as they get the upper hand, however, as for those people whom never broke the treaties with you and were true, then keep the peace with them and stay true to them, however if they accept Islam, then don't fight then anymore.
As for the people of the book (whom fought the Muslims), fight them till they are subdued and give the Jaziya.

If you take into all context, it never said to fight those whom incline to peace, but said the opposite, said if they incline to peace, to incline to peace.

Now that to me seems logical, and peaceful.

However, imperialistic rulers and their stooges, wanted to fight wars to conquer and hence said you see those verses teaching peace with those whom want peace....they are abrogated...instead you are to fight all non-Muslims till they become Muslims or in the case of the people of the book, until they are subdued and pay the jazeeya.

They took the verses out of context, and non-muslims trying to show Islam is not a religion of peace, do so as well.
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#5
RE: Christianity and Islam, religions of peace or war.
(September 15, 2012 at 5:40 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: If you read Quran, this how it goes:

I am preaching the religion, but there is no force upon anyone to accept it, and everyone can believe or disbelief.
Fight those whom fight you, but if they incline to peace, incline to peace.
The disbelievers kept breaking treaties, so don't uphold the final treaty but attack them, since they have no intentions of keeping this treaty and will attack you as soon as they get the upper hand, however, as for those people whom never broke the treaties with you and were true, then keep the peace with them and stay true to them, however if they accept Islam, then don't fight then anymore.
As for the people of the book (whom fought the Muslims), fight them till they are subdued and give the Jaziya.

If you take into all context, it never said to fight those whom incline to peace, but said the opposite, said if they incline to peace, to incline to peace.

Now that to me seems logical, and peaceful.

However, imperialistic rulers and their stooges, wanted to fight wars to conquer and hence said you see those verses teaching peace with those whom want peace....they are abrogated...instead you are to fight all non-Muslims till they become Muslims or in the case of the people of the book, until they are subdued and pay the jazeeya.

They took the verses out of context, and non-muslims trying to show Islam is not a religion of peace, do so as well.

I thought the non-Moslem tax was only applied to those of the Book (Jews and Christians).
But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, purifies us from all sin.
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#6
RE: Christianity and Islam, religions of peace or war.
(September 15, 2012 at 5:42 pm)Polaris Wrote:
(September 15, 2012 at 5:40 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: If you read Quran, this how it goes:

I am preaching the religion, but there is no force upon anyone to accept it, and everyone can believe or disbelief.
Fight those whom fight you, but if they incline to peace, incline to peace.
The disbelievers kept breaking treaties, so don't uphold the final treaty but attack them, since they have no intentions of keeping this treaty and will attack you as soon as they get the upper hand, however, as for those people whom never broke the treaties with you and were true, then keep the peace with them and stay true to them, however if they accept Islam, then don't fight then anymore.
As for the people of the book (whom fought the Muslims), fight them till they are subdued and give the Jaziya.

If you take into all context, it never said to fight those whom incline to peace, but said the opposite, said if they incline to peace, to incline to peace.

Now that to me seems logical, and peaceful.

However, imperialistic rulers and their stooges, wanted to fight wars to conquer and hence said you see those verses teaching peace with those whom want peace....they are abrogated...instead you are to fight all non-Muslims till they become Muslims or in the case of the people of the book, until they are subdued and pay the jazeeya.

They took the verses out of context, and non-muslims trying to show Islam is not a religion of peace, do so as well.

I thought the non-Moslem tax was only applied to those of the Book (Jews and Christians).

That is what I meant by the people of the book.

It's interpretation that made it universal. If you look at the Surah, it taught to stay true to those whom were true to their treaties.

This means if the people of the book in the Area were true to their treaties, they were not to be fought.

However imperialistic rulers and their stooges took everything out of context.

They said attack all polytheists until they accept Islam.
They said attack all people of the book, until they are subdued and pay the jazeeya.

However if you look at verses, the Quran is is very clear, in that you are not to fight those whom incline to peace.

The Surah was dealing with a situation, where the enemies of Muslims were constantly breaking treaties and were planning to break the final one and had no intentions of peace.

So it told them to attack them before they get the upper-hand.

However it clearly stated as for those whom were true to their treaties, to stay true to them.
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#7
RE: Christianity and Islam, religions of peace or war.
But how did they treat the Hindus?

And how can we trust people to make treaties when their own book can say they can lie about their faith (stating they are not Moslem) when it suits them?
But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, purifies us from all sin.
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#8
RE: Christianity and Islam, religions of peace or war.
(September 15, 2012 at 5:52 pm)Polaris Wrote: But how did they treat the Hindus?

And how can we trust people to make treaties when their own book can say they can lie about their faith (stating they are not Moslem) when it suits them?

Islam does teach you can lie about your faith (taqiya) but it's only when your life is in danger and you are guarding against your enemy.

Do you believe apostates are obligated to declare their beliefs in a Islamic state that believes in killing them for their apostasy?

I don't see the relevance here.
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#9
RE: Christianity and Islam, religions of peace or war.
There isn't any relevance. Polaris desperately wishes for christianity to be some wholly positive movement that was subbed out by jackasses (and wishes for all other religious movements to be somehow inferior) and he's fishing for a reason to continue believing said garb.

Like any tool manufactured by man, for mans use, religion can be a force for good or depravity, it's wholly dependent on the user.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#10
RE: Christianity and Islam, religions of peace or war.
(September 15, 2012 at 7:08 pm)Rhythm Wrote: There isn't any relevance. Polaris desperately wishes for christianity to be some wholly positive movement that was subbed out by jackasses (and wishes for all other religious movements to be somehow inferior) and he's fishing for a reason t continue believing said garb.

Except I was really big into Islam in my early twenties....I wish for other religious movements to be treated as per the US Constitution, not just limited to one religion.
But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, purifies us from all sin.
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