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Chick-fil-a: no longer funding hate groups?
#31
RE: Chick-fil-a: no longer funding hate groups?
(September 20, 2012 at 5:47 pm)Tiberius Wrote: Personal hatred does not give you the right to try and take away the livelihoods of anyone.

You're wrong.

You have quite the right to try.

The question is, does that act of trying violate any laws?
Slave to the Patriarchy no more
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#32
RE: Chick-fil-a: no longer funding hate groups?
Fair point. You have the right; it's just a dick move. End of the day, people who work at Wal*Mart made an active choice to work there; they weren't coerced or tricked. That's how the market works; employment is a compromise between employee and employer. The employee will only work for a minimal acceptable wage, and the employer will seek to maximize profit by offering the minimum amount they believe the job is worth. If the former value is less than or equal to the latter value, everyone is happy.

Of course, most employers (especially for high-skilled jobs) will pay more than what they consider the minimum amount of worth for a job, often to get that specific skill set (as it is valuable for the company in the long run).
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#33
RE: Chick-fil-a: no longer funding hate groups?
(September 20, 2012 at 5:47 pm)Tiberius Wrote: Personal hatred does not give you the right to try and take away the livelihoods of anyone.


The livelihood of the Waltons would indeed be completely and unfairly eradicated if their incomes are reduced by just a few billion here and there.
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#34
RE: Chick-fil-a: no longer funding hate groups?
We can argue about this forever. I'm not a total Marxist, but I do fall on the socialist end of the spectrum. You are a libertarian. We simply aren't going to see eye to eye about these sorts of things. I freely admit some of my core beliefs are personal and products of my experience. That being said...

Yes, people weren't coerced or tricked into taking jobs at Wal*Mart, but quite a few had no other options. Their choice was work for Wal*Mart or don't work at all. When it comes down to it, that isn't much of a choice, especially if one has children. The market itself isn't a level playing field. Wal*Mart has consistently fought (and won) against being unionized, which is a fundamental, constitutional right that should be ensured it's employees.
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#35
RE: Chick-fil-a: no longer funding hate groups?
Preventing unionization is a fault of Walmart.

But then again, who keeps voting in fascist shitwits who demonize and enact laws against unions?

Same people who shop and work at the Walmarts of the world.

I have a hard time feeling bad for them.

Until Walmart locks workers into stores and terrorizes them into not acting even in case of a emergency.

Which has happened.

And Walmart didn't even get a slap on the wrist.

Corporate states of America, where it's "Fuck you. Either starve or work for us like a slave".
Slave to the Patriarchy no more
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#36
Chick-fil-a: no longer funding hate groups?
I'd say that public ignorance isn't completely the fault of the ignorant. Powers that be like the people stupid.
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#37
RE: Chick-fil-a: no longer funding hate groups?
(September 20, 2012 at 6:56 pm)Chuck Wrote:
(September 20, 2012 at 5:47 pm)Tiberius Wrote: Personal hatred does not give you the right to try and take away the livelihoods of anyone.
The livelihood of the Waltons would indeed be completely and unfairly eradicated if their incomes are reduced by just a few billion here and there.
Erm...I was talking about the people who work the menial jobs at Wal*Mart. Yes, the Waltons would be fine with a few billion fewer, but on what grounds would you take it from them? They obtained it by following the law, and any foul play by their company has been punished with fines and legal action. In the cases where they weren't, I don't see how you can blame the family. Yes, they own the company, but unless there is evidence that suggests they were aware of foul play, they aren't responsible. That is why they have managers.

If you really want to make the rich contribute more to society, campaign for tax reform which closes all the loopholes that they use to hide their money. There are rich cunts out there, but there are also rich saints. We shouldn't punish the "good guys" who give their money to charitable causes out of their own pocket, without having to have it forcibly taken by the government in taxes (and yes, they pay that too).
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#38
Chick-fil-a: no longer funding hate groups?
Even the Waltons have their charitable contributions. One of Sam's daughters contributed most of the funds for a new art museum in Bentonville. Either the Waltons or Wal*Mart created a trust so this museum would be free to the public. I went to Walton Jr. High School, which Sam built, but it was later renamed. But this kind of giving is only beneficial to those that live in Bentonville. It doesn't help the average, minimum wage earner that works for the company.
What do you know, there is a point that we agree on!! I fully support a more equitable tax system and closing the loopholes that allow the uber-wealthy to not pay their fair share. Hell, I don't really like it and it would force my family to tighten our belts, but I'd give up my mortgage deduction if it would help benefit society.
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#39
RE: Chick-fil-a: no longer funding hate groups?
(September 20, 2012 at 7:16 pm)Moros Synackaon Wrote: Preventing unionization is a fault of Walmart.

But then again, who keeps voting in fascist shitwits who demonize and enact laws against unions?

Same people who shop and work at the Walmarts of the world.

I have a hard time feeling bad for them.

Until Walmart locks workers into stores and terrorizes them into not acting even in case of a emergency.

Which has happened.

And Walmart didn't even get a slap on the wrist.

Corporate states of America, where it's "Fuck you. Either starve or work for us like a slave".
Misinformation is the fault preventing unionization. It's a violation of federal law for a company to fire someone for trying to start a union, (although companies use other tactics to rid themselves of a union organizer). Forming a union is protected activity under federal law. The biggest hurdle to forming a union in a company is getting enough worker support. Most are afraid to give their support because they're not aquainted with the laws protecting union activity.....

Quote:Employee Rights

Employees covered by the National Labor Relations Act are afforded certain rights to join together to improve their wages and working conditions, with or without a union.

Union Activity

Employees have the right to attempt to form a union where none currently exists, or to decertify a union that has lost the support of employees.

Examples of employee rights include:

* Forming, or attempting to form, a union in your workplace;
* Joining a union whether the union is recognized by your employer or not;
* Assisting a union in organizing your fellow employees;
* Refusing to do any or all of these things.
* To be fairly represented by a union

https://www.nlrb.gov/rights-we-protect/employee-rights
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Quote:It was an awful mistake to characterize based upon religion. I should not judge any theist that way, I must remember what I said in order to change.
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#40
RE: Chick-fil-a: no longer funding hate groups?
Walmart still uses underhanded methods to get their way, though. They've had a history of hiring illegal aliens (probably for much less than the legal minimum wage) and not paying out overtime when it's owed to employees. And I've worked there and I specifically them making me watch an anti-union propaganda video in training which, to my knowledge, is illegal as well.

I'm not saying the company itself is bad as much as the environment that created it is bad. You allow big corporations like walmart to skirt the law left and right and you barely slap them on the wrist when they get caught and they're going to continue doing it. If you start strict adherence to laws, you'll see the company change and smacking them with hefty fines when they do break those laws, you'll see things change.

However, back to Chick-fil-a. Remember how it was suggested that they're trying to appease both sides here? It's failed, big time. GLBT organizations supporters still hate them because they're still giving money to hate groups, but now their facebook page is filled with Christians, upset at them for compromising on their principals against homosexuality. This has been a PR nightmare for them; if they could have made a worse move, I honestly don't know how they could manage it.
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