Let's Start Over, I'm Blackrook and I'm Here to Get Some Answers to Important Questions

[Blackrook]

My life has basically been one shitty experience after another, ad infinitum.

If I thought this life was all there is I seriously could not stand being alive.

The only thing that keeps me going, the ONLY THING, is believing that at some point something really good is going to happen to me.

I've given up on something good happening to me in this life, so all I have left is the life in the hereafter.

So if I was an atheist, I would probably kill myself so my wife could get the life insurance money.

I am being totally serious here.

[Mister Agenda]

Right, well I've stopped believing that God is going to swoop in and fix my life and make things better. He has already proven he's not going to do that.

All the bad things that have happened to me I realize are caused by a combination of factors: I am bipolar, I am ADD, and an anti-social personality because my mother was abusive to me and I grew up not trusting people.

That's a lot of strikes against you. For what it's worth, I recommend when you look at where you are, think about what you had to overcome to get that far.

So I have had very little success in my career, and at the age of 47 I am once again starting out with nothing in my bank account, no book of business, but still with all the responsibilities of a wife and a son to support, plus lots of bills.

That's pretty rough. I've been broke, but at least it was long enough ago that I've mostly recovered. Right now I'm trying to help a refugee without a HS diploma and only so-so English find a job and it's really hard in the current economy...even forklift operator positions are requiring a diploma or GED. I hope you at least have some sort of employment to help you hold over.

And God has done nothing to help me with any of this, despite my prayers.

Or maybe he has, I don't know. Maybe I should be counting my blessings: a happy marriage and three wonderful children. And if I die now, I've accomplished that. I had a very unhappy childhood, but I was able to make sure my children DID have a happy childhood.

You've already done more for your children than your parents did for you. That's definitely not nuthin'.

But I've been a bad example to them on Catholicism. My eldest has declared she is not a Catholic, my second daughter doesn't attend Mass, and my son did not complete his confirmation. And what could I expect since I am so slack in this area myself, and my wife really is not a Catholic except in name since she converted only because she married me.

You can't control your children's religion. You can love them and respect their choices. In my humble opinion, doing anything else won't make Catholics of them but it could drive them away from you. All a parent can do by way of example is be the best person they are able to be. Be happy if they turn out to be half-way decent people, if they come to share your religion, consider it a bonus.

My father is very disappointed in me, and with his other children who are wandering from the faith. My younger sister has declared she is an atheist, my other sister married a Muslim, and I've been missing Mass for years.

Based on what you've said, you're a better father to your children than your father was to his, and it doesn't sound like he was that great an example for inspiring Catholicism himself. It's hard not to live in the shadows of our fathers, whether they were great, terrible, or in-between; but maybe your father should spend a little more time being disappointed in himself and a little less on being disappointed with you.

And really its all about my father, since he controls me with guilt.

And so I guilt him back. Why didn't you do something while Mom was hitting me? Why did you just stand there and let it happen? And then he gets upset, and so I don't do that any more. What's the point?

Venting, i suppose. If you would prefer pastoral counseling, I recommend you find a priest with good credentials and experience for it. Talking to someone in RL is probably a good idea.

Any way, I'm rambling. There's really no point in this except to say that things have not worked out for me the way I hoped. And now I've learned that things don't work that way. God never promised that those who follow him would acheive success, fame and happiness in this life. It is childish to think so, and I guess I have to stop being a child.

But Mass does nothing for me. I do not feel God's presence at Mass and I do not feel inspired to pray to him at any time. I feel an emptiness instead, and a longing that my struggle in this world could finally, mercifully end.

You're bipolar. You know this will pass and you will feel better.

Well, ok, I'm trying to be nice but if you don't want to do that I will put you on ignore and pay attention to the people who want to talk constructively.

That could work.

So anyway, that's what I'm going to do. I am not going to continue this war that started when I first got here. I am going to stick to the subject and talk to people who want to talk to me in a respectful, polite, constructive fashion.

And anyone who doesn't want to talk to me respectfully, politely, and constructively will quickly join my ignore list.

And in that way, I will not lose my temper and go back to the way things went when I first got here.

Sounds like a plan. I hope you can be an interesting and long-term addition to the site.

[Tiberius]

Life has all sorts of shitty things going on, but you have to fight through that. You are in charge of your own life, so you need to go out and make good things happen, whether that is learning a new skill, reading a good book, or helping someone out. Besides, you say you have a wife...surely she's a good thing in your life?

[TaraJo]

My life has basically been one shitty experience after another, ad infinitum.

If I thought this life was all there is I seriously could not stand being alive.

The only thing that keeps me going, the ONLY THING, is believing that at some point something really good is going to happen to me.

I've given up on something good happening to me in this life, so all I have left is the life in the hereafter.

So if I was an atheist, I would probably kill myself so my wife could get the life insurance money.

I am being totally serious here.

*hugs* I've been there. I've made multiple suicide attempts and spent years where I was firmly convinced there was nothing to live for you. I wish I could give you a suggestion how to get over it, but what worked for me probably won't work for you. I can say that even if you don't believe it now, things will get better and if you commit suicide, you won't be able to see them get better.

[Mystic]

My life has basically been one shitty experience after another, ad infinitum.

If I thought this life was all there is I seriously could not stand being alive.

The only thing that keeps me going, the ONLY THING, is believing that at some point something really good is going to happen to me.

I've given up on something good happening to me in this life, so all I have left is the life in the hereafter.

So if I was an atheist, I would probably kill myself so my wife could get the life insurance money.

I am being totally serious here.

Appeal to consequence...most of your posts are of this nature...your appealing to consequence in that somehow that truth will go away. It doesn't matter how much the truth hurts, there is no reason not to accept the truth.

If you watched the Matrix, your being like the bald guy whom was upset at being awakened from the matrix and wanted to go back to his delusion.

Don't be like that. Whatever the truth is, face it.

If it's a reality, you don't know God exists, acknowledge it. If you don't believe firmly acknowledge it.

[jonb]

@Blackrook Your problem will not be sorted intellectually, it is not about some winning argument pushing you this way or that. It seems to me you are a catholic because it is a label you want to have, and it seems to you that a life without an imposed meaning is a concept that is to frightening for you to contemplate. OK have a good time, but you shouldn't try to find there is a logical reason for your position, beyond it is your comfort zone.

[Kayenneh]

What can atheism offer to replace that?

Nothing.
It's personal for those who 'convert' to atheism from theology, but in many cases its one certain idea that strikes. All we've accomplished, all the times we thought god picked us up, all the times we were about to give in but prayed for a solution, we realized afterwards that those times we kept ourselves from falling, the one who helped was indeed 'me'. Life can be tough, harsh and horrible but you've survived this far. You say it's your god, I say you were amazing and pulled through!

So if I was an atheist, I would probably kill myself so my wife could get the life insurance money.

Please don't. If they ever find out that it is suicide, she won't get any money, and even more importantly, I don't think any money could replace a beloved husband.

[Darkstar]

Wow, I did not expect this. Well, here goes nothing:

Some people say that religion comforts them, and if following a certain religion is the only way they can be at peace with themselves, then I think that is fine. It is possible, though it might take some doing, to be a freethinker but believe in god for emotional reasons. Personally, I think that a self-generating god is far more amazingly unlikely than a self-generating universe, but I cannot prove it 100%. I personally feel that it is more of a 99.99% that he doesn't exist, but you can believe what you want if that's what you need. However, you don't need divine intervention for something good to happen to you. People mistake such fortunes for divine intervention all the time.

The problem of theism in general, at least how I would define it, is that it accepts premade answers in leiu of actual discovery. However, if you are like your father and 'do not try to waive any science because of the bible' you can still fit with a deistic view, in which god created the universe but does not interfere with life on earth. Deists are not bound by the (flawed) moral code of any established religion. For example, Christianity teaches that homosexuality is evil. It is true, that it is a deviation from the norm, but it is not possible to objectively call it evil. This does not mean that you can do whatever you want. Many wonder where atheists get their morality from (or if they even have any). I personally believe (and I think a number of other atheists would agree) that many morals are biologically built into us. There have even been interesting studies on altruistic bacteria, like this one. Regardless, if you know right from wrong, and seriously consider things for yourself, you won't need the church to tell you what to do.

When confronted with the meaning of life, one must admit that there is no objective meaning other than the perpetuation of the species. However, you can give your own life meaning. What is the difference in the life of a docter compared to a lawyer? Things like social activism, the bonds we form with those close to us, the lives we've impacted, overall our contribution to society, that is our meaning, the meaning we choose to give ourselves.

It is personally not comforting to me to believe in god. If you don't believe, then you won't take your misfortunes as personally as though god chose not to help you. As for death; yes it's kind of scary to think that it's all over when you die, but one eventually comes to grips with it. The rules laid out by Catholicism will, as your thread title stated, doom almost everyone to hell, so not beliveing may actually be more comforting in this case.

After reading your posts in this thread, I am beginning to understand why you acted the way you did. Thanks again for trying to be civil.

[Mister Agenda]

My life has basically been one shitty experience after another, ad infinitum.

If I thought this life was all there is I seriously could not stand being alive.

The only thing that keeps me going, the ONLY THING, is believing that at some point something really good is going to happen to me.

I've given up on something good happening to me in this life, so all I have left is the life in the hereafter.

So if I was an atheist, I would probably kill myself so my wife could get the life insurance money.

I am being totally serious here.

Then you're in a crisis and you need help. You have a family, if you can't do it for yourself, do it for them. I'm sure your wife and child would rather have you than your insurance money. You're loved, and not everyone has that. Something really good already has happened to you, and it's a source of strength you can literally hold on to.

[Tiberius]

What?

I don't know what that has to do with what I posted or am talking about. I'm making a statistical argument about why atheists aren't trying to convert blackrock, nor do they want to. Not even talking about the morality of the Catholic Church. Or is that just your stock answer to any criticism?

Apologies, I read your post as a comparison over the actions of the Catholic church, which coupled with your statement that you didn't care about being rude, I took as a rather nasty dig at a Catholic.

Glad to see that wasn't the case, though I still disagree with you over not caring about being rude. This is a forum about sharing beliefs and respecting each other. Blackroot has tried to start over, so please give him the same respect you would give any other new member. That goes for everyone else too.