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Jews don't get a pass "just because"
#21
RE: Jews don't get a pass "just because"
Don't argue with him Brian - he'll keep espousing his nationalist tendencies till kingdom come.
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#22
RE: Jews don't get a pass "just because"
the "historical claim" argument is amongst the greatest bullshit arguments cricling arround.
2000 years ago jews lived there so let`s give all of the land to them! ...............?
well, one might aswell rebuild the first caliphate and completly disolve the nation of Israel and Spain to give the iberian peninsular to the arabs.
or reinterduce the balkans and greece under turkish rule, or give half of anatolia, the krim and half of the balkans to greece and crown a new byzantine king.
why not give a quater of poland back to germany and belarus and the ukrain back to russia?

why not? because it`s madness it`s talking about genocide and\or the expullsion of a people as if it was some simple inferstructure reform. and people who value life that low are eighter mad or religious.

when i choose my arguments on current geopolitical disputes i choose my argument on the bases of what the current political situation is like and what would be the best outcome with the lowest amount of damage being inflicted and not to rebuild some historic and long gone empire.
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#23
RE: Jews don't get a pass "just because"
We are living in an increasingly global society. Those who decide they need to hold on to particular strips of land based on history and that they have some sort of fucking "right" to them because of race or religion are backwards and retarded.
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#24
RE: Jews don't get a pass "just because"
(October 1, 2012 at 9:57 am)thesummerqueen Wrote: Don't argue with him Brian - he'll keep espousing his nationalist tendencies till kingdom come.

If it were just my argument, I would not have brought it up.
All communities that can be rightfully regarded "nations" have had such tendencies. And most of them still do.
Quote:We are living in an increasingly global society. Those who decide they need to hold on to particular strips of land based on history and that they have some sort of fucking "right" to them because of race or religion are backwards and retarded.
And what has this global society of yours done for the people of the world? Nothing, nothing more than to bring about destruction and to establish the hegemony of a single people over others, with the promises of peace and prosperity. I say that the world is much better off if individual nations thrive and develop independently, while maintaining friendly relations of commerce and trade, but your global society aims for the slavery of smaller groups of like-minded people, something what we call imperialism.
I'm determined to fight this so called fancy representation of modern imperial agenda to my last drop of blood, while you are only bent on perpetrating it, for you cannot live without it.

Historical rights and cultural rights are the heart and soul of a nation. Without history and culture, a nation is no more than a nation than a colony of ants, which are a structured society, but do not keep records, and have no real consciousness or agenda besides their base needs, and their hive-minded mentality.
Is this what you envision the world to be, friend?

Quote:the "historical claim" argument is amongst the greatest bullshit arguments cricling arround.
2000 years ago jews lived there so let`s give all of the land to them! ...............?
How about, let them take it if they have power to do so?
Great deeds are not written with ink and pen, but with blood and the sharp tip of a bayonet.
Similarly, if the people that live on the land in the present are unable to resist them, what can one do?
Both sides have their legitimate claims, which means that only war can solve this dispute. This is the law of the world.

Quote:well, one might aswell rebuild the first caliphate and completly disolve the nation of Israel and Spain to give the iberian peninsular to the arabs.
Latins and celtiberians lived there long before the arabs strided in. That's why the Spaniards, who are the collective of these called their vendetta against them "reconquista".
You cannot do anything. Any people, who have claims on a particular piece of land, ought to take it by their own might, or fail while trying to do so.
"Let's give this land to those" or "lets give that land to them" are the words that fall out of the mouth of an imperialist, and nations formed in such ways are nothing but mere puppets, ready to fall at the next breeze after their masters withdraw their support for them.


Quote:why not give a quater of poland back to germany and belarus and the ukrain back to russia?
You always talk about giving. Who has given anything to anyone in this world? There is no giving anything to anyone. There is only taking.
Since no one gave a quarter of Poland to Germany, Germany sought to take it by his own might, and succeeded for a period of time.
Similarly, the Jews had to fight for that particular piece of land that they sit on today. They did have assitance from the western world however, and if the west were to withdraw it's support, and if the arabs were to unite, the jews would lean back to their trusty old tactic of buggering off, although I'm sure that they too, will resist for some time until they can safely evacuate themselves to any country that will offer them refuge in such a case.

Quote:when i choose my arguments on current geopolitical disputes i choose my argument on the bases of what the current political situation is like and what would be the best outcome with the lowest amount of damage being inflicted and not to rebuild some historic and long gone empire.
There is no "low" amount of damage when it comes to geopolitical issues.
If there are two parties, engaged in a dispute, someone has to lose, and someone has to win. For now, everything is in a stalamate. The jews are still there, but so are the arabs, and their will to retake what they have lost.
But the arabs are foolish, in that they weep like a woman, for something that they could not defend like a man. I do not like such antics. And the jews too, are eager to play out on their past misfortunes to gain sympathy of others.
It's a low thing to do.
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#25
RE: Jews don't get a pass "just because"
(October 1, 2012 at 12:13 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote:
(October 1, 2012 at 9:57 am)thesummerqueen Wrote: Don't argue with him Brian - he'll keep espousing his nationalist tendencies till kingdom come.

If it were just my argument, I would not have brought it up.

You're the only one I ever see arguing that viewpoint with any sort of seriousness. I don't give a shit about the others. Also, other people sharing your viewpoint without bringing some sort of logic and evidence for it merely means they agree with your jabber - not that you have a good idea. Argument ad populum is a fallacy.

Quote:All communities that can be rightfully regarded "nations" have had such tendencies. And most of them still do.

Exclusion of others due to pride in oneself is an elitist, bullshit way of acting and is the reason I hate particular conservatives in this country, which was founded on the backs of immigrants, many of whom the conservatives of all economic strata wish to keep out because they play better, work better, and study more than they do. The earth is not an orange to slice up and be eaten by whomever can lay fastest claim to the section.

Quote:
Quote:We are living in an increasingly global society. Those who decide they need to hold on to particular strips of land based on history and that they have some sort of fucking "right" to them because of race or religion are backwards and retarded.
And what has this global society of yours done for the people of the world? Nothing, nothing more than to bring about destruction and to establish the hegemony of a single people over others, with the promises of peace and prosperity. I say that the world is much better off if individual nations thrive and develop independently, while maintaining friendly relations of commerce and trade, but your global society aims for the slavery of smaller groups of like-minded people, something what we call imperialism.
I'm determined to fight this so called fancy representation of modern imperial agenda to my last drop of blood, while you are only bent on perpetrating it, for you cannot live without it.

Your continued repitition of slippery slope arguments and denunciation of anything the West has given the East or vice versa is a constant source of irritated amusement for me.

Good luck without cars, internet, medicines/vaccines, etc.

PS - global society doesn't mean "hive mind." It's hard to have a hive mind when the earth is made up of thinking individuals. Well - at least we are here in the west. Is that a problem in Turkey? Is the adherence to Nation and Family so strong that y'all can't think for yourselves?

Quit projecting your fears onto our future. The world is what you make it - the quality of your thoughts shape the quality of your ability to give to the rest of the world.

And I said "increasing" - problems don't get solved overnight and there are too many people like you still around to hold coherent discussions about doing what's best for everyone and not just your isolated state.
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#26
RE: Jews don't get a pass "just because"
Quote:You're the only one I ever see arguing that viewpoint with any sort of seriousness. I don't give a shit about the others. Also, other people sharing your viewpoint without bringing some sort of logic and evidence for it merely means they agree with your jabber - not that you have a good idea. Argument ad populum is a fallacy.
It does not matter what bydlos think about nationalism. They don't even know what a nation is, or what constitutes a nation, or what ethnic/national consciousness is. This is why they vote according to their present, base needs, and bring the issue of nationalism during the course of drinking with friends. They are ideologically hungry and ignorant.

The law and order of this world was tested throughout history. Multi-national empires fell one by one, replaced by smaller countries, based on people who share common heritage, virtues and language.
This was the only way that peace could actually exist. As you see, no one really wants to become the minority living under the hand of another majority that is the dominant "people" within that country, unless they are fed materialism as to forget their own national needs, in favor of base materialism. For the present day, the US is this country that promises only wealth and luxury to it's citizens, while telling them to put whatever identities they have or had in the past, aside to live out the American dream. But it too, is slowly collapsing. People are getting more and more restless. As there is nothing more than materialism that keeps the people together, it will eventually fall.
Quote:Exclusion of others due to pride in oneself is an elitist, bullshit way of acting and is the reason I hate particular conservatives in this country, which was founded on the backs of immigrants, many of whom the conservatives of all economic strata wish to keep out because they play better, work better, and study more than they do. The earth is not an orange to slice up and be eaten by whomever can lay fastest claim to the section.
I don't exclude you out of the picture because you're different than me. I exclude you out because I have my own kindred to live with. Why would I need you? What good are you to me? You have no historical, cultural, ethnic, linguistic or any ties at all, to me, and your loyalty to the cause and welbeing of my people is very much under debate in my eyes. And judging from history, our people have suffered enough by trusting foreigners instead of our own kin, while others thrived doing by doing the quite opposite.

And similarly, why should I trust you to help me while your own people need help, say? I do not accept this mentality. I ought to help myself, and my people, before I even think of helping someone who is not of me. It's just logical to do so. Why would you give out your monthly pay to someone you don't know, while your children are starving back home? Why would you help a stranger to climb up the legde while your brother by blood is hanging to it only narrowly?
It's not elitism, it's just the right thing to do.
It's the only thing to do.
Quote:Your continued repitition of slippery slope arguments and denunciation of anything the West has given the East or vice versa is a constant source of irritated amusement for me.

Good luck without cars, internet, medicines/vaccines, etc.
And now you're threatening me with stating that I ought to be your slave just because you give me these playthings?
Just for your information: we do not need your cars, nor your internet, nor you medicine. We've been a great nation before, and we will continue to be so in the future. Even those who are small and downtrodden nations have some shred of national pride to tell you to fuck off if you were to threaten them with "You have to give me your oil(or any national resource, or simply accept forced alignment) cheap, or no more internet/SUV's/vaccines!"
Not to lump every nation of the west together with the artificial, mongrel nation of the US, that thinks that they can buy off the world with these, but in general, your outlook of the world is defined by how much material goods you can individually acquire. And you are ready to sell your souls if you were required to do so.
And you believe that everyone is like you in that regard. Well, I'm not. You can have your cars, internet, medicine. You don't give it out for free anyways to tell me that I ought not to complain about it. Well, I'm not. And I would have still been proud to call myself a Turk even if I were without a home, or a piece of bread to chew on. This is what you people lack. And this is why you will crumble, while we will live on, as we have done for millenia.

Quote:PS - global society doesn't mean "hive mind."
No, it doesn't. For a hive mind is still much better in comparison with what we will endure if this global society of yours sees real application in the future. But I guess that mankind only moves forward with trial-error applications and people have to see the horrors that this global society will bring upon smaller, less advanced or simply broken apart, but great nations to grow out of it, and start fighting back.
We as a nation, oppose the imperialist agenda of globalism.
I'm fairly certain that most nations around the earth do so.
Quote:It's hard to have a hive mind when the earth is made up of thinking individuals.
If those individuals all think the same, then it's quite the hive mind in my opinion. Obviously, they cannot, but they can very well be motivated by the same thing-materialism. And I'm certain that no global power that lords over the entire mankind can fulfill the materialistic desires of billions of individuals, so this global society is a failed attempt to bring about stability from the start. In fact, it disregards reality, and spawns only chaos-as we've seen throughout the time from the death of the Soviet union to the present day.
Quote:Is that a problem in Turkey? Is the adherence to Nation and Family so strong that y'all can't think for yourselves?

It's now slowly being undermined by creeping materialism. And this is why that our nation now is ruled by mongrels and bad politicians, who are mere puppets of western powers. The people ought to take up their weapons and hang these traitors at the gallows, but are thinking "too much" about themselves, not "for themselves" for if they were able to think for themselves, they would bring about national unity and consciousness to glorify our name as it was glorified before, when the Turk was the master of her own.

Quote:Quit projecting your fears onto our future. The world is what you make it - the quality of your thoughts shape the quality of your ability to give to the rest of the world.
The world has given me nothing, that I ought to give something back to it.
I only adhere to the earth, not to the rest of non-kin that live on it.
Do you really believe that the west cares deeply about what happens to us? If we were to suddenly disappear tomorrow, neither you, nor anyone else on this forum would shed a single tear. Nor do I expect you to do so.
Quote:And I said "increasing" - problems don't get solved overnight and there are too many people like you still around to hold coherent discussions about doing what's best for everyone and not just your isolated state.
Your proposed solution to these problems will come when mankind is of one race, one creed, one religion, one nation, one culture, and one single language. And I really wonder how you're going to bring this about while thousands of years of human history could not.
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#27
RE: Jews don't get a pass "just because"
Nope, you're reading your own negativity into what I said. Why the fuck would I want you as a slave? The only slave I want is an oiled up, loin-cloth-wearing Gerard Butler. Unless it's Eldinero. He'd do quite nicely.

PS - you're totally missing the point of "quality of life".
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#28
RE: Jews don't get a pass "just because"
(October 1, 2012 at 1:07 pm)thesummerqueen Wrote: Nope, you're reading your own negativity into what I said. Why the fuck would I want you as a slave? The only slave I want is an oiled up, loin-cloth-wearing Gerard Butler. Unless it's Eldinero. He'd do quite nicely.

PS - you're totally missing the point of "quality of life".

No. The only slave you want is the underpaid chinese worker who has made the components of the computer that you use right now. And to be honest, that's the only slave I want too. Because I don't have to feed him. He has to feed himself with his meagre pay.

And he himself has no computer that could rival yours nor mine. Maybe in twenty years, perhaps.
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#29
RE: Jews don't get a pass "just because"
Yeah, you're right - living and thinking on a global scale so that people are more aware of how others work and live would do absolutely nothing to alleviate that.
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#30
RE: Jews don't get a pass "just because"
I was hoping my favorite Jew would be in this thread. Hello, Summer. Miss you, babe. That is all.
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