Christians celebrate rape, torture, slavery and genocide.

[thesummerqueen]

[Drich]

I am going to just correct your understanding of my theology, and clarify a few points.

This has come up several times between myself and Drich, as he lacks the wits to realize he paints himself into a corner every time he attempts to justify the crimes God encourages, or directly commits. So, I'd like to address it as its own topic, as it usually comes up within others.

to translate Ryantology will say "God has killed people." I will say something like:"So?"

1: God is all-knowing, all-powerful, everywhere at once. He is the very quintessence of 'good'. He is the ultimate morality. He is the ultimate righteousness.

I could argue/refine these points, but for the sake of this arguement this observation is close enough.

2. The Bible, and everything in it, are indefatigable truth

Yes.

and must be accepted without doubt or question as factual.

No, 1Thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is Good. If I did not question every aspect of the bible I could not answer my own questions let alone yours. (Don't just question the questionable, question the foundational.)

Drich argues the first point frequently, in several contexts. If you point out to him that God is documented, in scripture, as wiping out millions of people without mercy, he will tell you that God is not beholden to Man's morality, as if Man's morality is inferior to that held by someone guilty of genocide.

This is good.

This also seems to be the crux of your demila. If it were me I would ask the guy repersenting The Bible. "Why can God commit genocide, and retain any type of Righteousness/Ultimate Morality??" But that is just me, starting a thread to seek out a consensus rather than seek a biblical based answer is just as well. I guess it depends on your utlimate goal.

If one reads the Bible without their critical thinking functions blunted by faith, it is impossible to justify loyalty to God on the basis that he is good and moral, unless you are willing to profess that the actions his own allegedly indisputable text indicts him of are also good and moral actions.

Good Yes, Moral no. As Morality is man's standard it is quite possiable for God to be outside the bounds of man's morality/the standard in which man has derived from his own version of righteousness.

If you are a true Christian, you have to read this list and say, with a straight face, that everything in that list is a good and moral action,

Again this is where your arguement fails, for God does not have to be 'moral' or rather judged to be in compliance with the standard of man inorder to be Righteous.
(Another place for you to ask why.)

because every single crime in there was either perpetrated directly by God himself, perpetrated by men acting under God's direct orders, or done with God's implicit blessing. It is, in fact, not extreme at all to pin every crime ever committed on the creator being who can stop all of it at any time he desires,

So?

because it is clear that he desires evil in the world. He would not allow it to exist otherwise.

Another place for you to ask Why?

If you refuse to do this, your faith in God is obviously not total, and according to guys like Drich, a lack of total servility to God means you're not going to Heaven.

Actually it's according to guys like Jesus, Paul, Peter... Drich is just parroting back what was said acouple thousand years ago.

If you are a Christian, a Jew, or a Muslim, or any other sect who pledges his or her soul to Yahweh, you are aiding and abetting a criminal. Which makes you no better than that criminal.

Moo ha ha ha! Hide the women and children here come the religious!

[thesummerqueen]

You're a walking Special Pleading billboard.

[Ryantology]

Response to Drich:

---

to translate Ryantology will say "God has killed people." I will say something like:"So?"

Of course, you would have an indifferent response. You celebrate felonies as long as God is involved in them.

No, 1Thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is Good. If I did not question every aspect of the bible I could not answer my own questions let alone yours. (Don't just question the questionable, question the foundational.)

Have you repudiated the Old Testament?

This also seems to be the crux of your demila. If it were me I would ask the guy repersenting The Bible. "Why can God commit genocide, and retain any type of Righteousness/Ultimate Morality??" But that is just me, starting a thread to seek out a consensus rather than seek a biblical based answer is just as well. I guess it depends on your utlimate goal.

That demonstrates the correctness of my judgement of your character as a Christian. Instead of asking "Why can God commit genocide and not be considered evil", you attempt to use semantics to prove that genocide is acceptable and even to be encouraged if God is responsible for it.

Good Yes, Moral no. As Morality is man's standard it is quite possiable for God to be outside the bounds of man's morality/the standard in which man has derived from his own version of righteousness.

We have a term for people who consider themselves outside the bounds of morality to the extent where they kill for pleasure, rape, torture or enslave: we call them 'criminals'.

Again this is where your arguement fails, for God does not have to be 'moral' or rather judged to be in compliance with the standard of man inorder to be Righteous. (Another place for you to ask why.)

His 'righteousness' is justified by the idea that he could unmake creation if he wanted to. It is rule by might. Spiritual despotism.

You wish to place God above morals because you are so aware that God would fail almost any test of morals man could apply to himself. Man's morality is a standard God is incapable of satisfying, unless your example of Man's morality is, say, that of the Taliban's.

So?

So, you worship a monster. You promote a dogma of evil and suffering.

Another place for you to ask Why?

The reason why is obvious: God enjoys suffering and death and privation. He invented everything bad. According to you.

Actually it's according to guys like Jesus, Paul, Peter... Drich is just parroting back what was said acouple thousand years ago.

This makes you both supportive of the worst kinds of evil and incapable of independent thought.

Moo ha ha ha! Hide the women and children here come the religious!

A statement which has no doubt been actually said, in one form or another, millions of times in human history and continues to be today.

---

[Drich]

Response to Drich:

---

to translate Ryantology will say "God has killed people." I will say something like:"So?"

Of course, you would have an indifferent response. You celebrate felonies as long as God is involved in them.

No, 1Thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is Good. If I did not question every aspect of the bible I could not answer my own questions let alone yours. (Don't just question the questionable, question the foundational.)

Have you repudiated the Old Testament?

This also seems to be the crux of your demila. If it were me I would ask the guy repersenting The Bible. "Why can God commit genocide, and retain any type of Righteousness/Ultimate Morality??" But that is just me, starting a thread to seek out a consensus rather than seek a biblical based answer is just as well. I guess it depends on your utlimate goal.

That demonstrates the correctness of my judgement of your character as a Christian. Instead of asking "Why can God commit genocide and not be considered evil", you attempt to use semantics to prove that genocide is acceptable and even to be encouraged if God is responsible for it.

Good Yes, Moral no. As Morality is man's standard it is quite possiable for God to be outside the bounds of man's morality/the standard in which man has derived from his own version of righteousness.

We have a term for people who consider themselves outside the bounds of morality to the extent where they kill for pleasure, rape, torture or enslave: we call them 'criminals'.

Again this is where your arguement fails, for God does not have to be 'moral' or rather judged to be in compliance with the standard of man inorder to be Righteous. (Another place for you to ask why.)

His 'righteousness' is justified by the idea that he could unmake creation if he wanted to. It is rule by might. Spiritual despotism.

You wish to place God above morals because you are so aware that God would fail almost any test of morals man could apply to himself. Man's morality is a standard God is incapable of satisfying, unless your example of Man's morality is, say, that of the Taliban's.

So?

So, you worship a monster. You promote a dogma of evil and suffering.

Another place for you to ask Why?

The reason why is obvious: God enjoys suffering and death and privation. He invented everything bad. According to you.

Actually it's according to guys like Jesus, Paul, Peter... Drich is just parroting back what was said acouple thousand years ago.

This makes you both supportive of the worst kinds of evil and incapable of independent thought.

Moo ha ha ha! Hide the women and children here come the religious!

A statement which has no doubt been actually said, in one form or another, millions of times in human history and continues to be today.

---

I will respect the purpose of this thread (to get a consensus of what other believers think) and will not go line by line as we have had this conversation many times before. Again the reason I even responded was to correct your understanding of my beliefs.

---

You're a walking Special Pleading billboard.

I bet you are one of those people who shout at the movie screen in a crowed theather.

What happened to you just eating your popcorn and observing?

[Minimalist]

If I did not question every aspect of the bible I could not answer my own questions let alone yours.

Your answers, drippy, are invariably wrong.

[Cinjin]

Drich argues the first point frequently, in several contexts. If you point out to him that God is documented, in scripture, as wiping out millions of people without mercy, he will tell you that God is not beholden to Man's morality, as if Man's morality is inferior to that held by someone guilty of genocide.

This is good.

This also seems to be the crux of your demila*. If it were me I would ask the guy repersenting* The Bible. "Why can God commit genocide, and retain any type of Righteousness/Ultimate Morality??" But that is just me, starting a thread to seek out a consensus rather than seek a biblical based answer is just as well. I guess it depends on your utlimate* goal. *See Spell Check

hahahaha

"A biblical based answer" ... you're funny man.
Hilarious because you're a filthy apologist. It doesn't matter how sound the argument is made when it is YOU and YOU alone who decides if it's "biblical" -- and only then if it suits your side of the argument. You'll contort it and twist it and verbally bend it over backwards to fit into your argument.

...but seriously, dude, I didn't know you were so funny.

Tell me more of your silly jokes.

[Minimalist]

What's a demila?

[Cinjin]

What's a demila?

New word. I'm calling it his inability to right click his mouse for a spell check.

[Aractus]

If you are a Christian, a Jew, or a Muslim, or any other sect who pledges his or her soul to Yahweh, you are aiding and abetting a criminal. Which makes you no better than that criminal.

For an ex-Christian you give a pretty weak argument. Why not come up with something more direct than a list that is laughable to anyone who's read the Bible? "Moses murders an Egyptian" - what did that have to do with God? Is your argument that God isn't allowed to call and use murderers to be his prophets?

If one reads the Bible without their critical thinking functions blunted by faith ...

Even that statement is wrong. You're treating the Bible as one single book - any established Christian knows that different books need to be approached differently - that there is great diversity among them. Some give commandments, others show the results of following God's commandments - for instance. You wouldn't look to Job to find out what God's commandments are, but you'll learn other things about how God responds to faithfulness.