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Permanent omnipotence?
#21
RE: Permanent omnipotence?
When it comes to logic, yes. Everything is subject to logic, otherwise it's nothing.

Just as omnipotence is subject to existence, it is subject to logic.
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#22
RE: Permanent omnipotence?
I don't think that the followers of omnipotent this or thats will ken to idea of their pet fairy being subject to anything Doubt.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#23
RE: Permanent omnipotence?
There are theists who define omnipotence that way. And I'm sure that there are plenty of reasonably thinking Christians that do. Ryft from these forums for example.

There are Christians who don't believe that omnipotence means that God can create square circles or married bachelors because that simply doesn't make any sense.
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#24
RE: Permanent omnipotence?



I think the bible and the study of it can be and is fascinating, for many reasons which I'm not going to attempt to explain here. However, I think the old chestnut that it is worth reading for its literary qualities is highly dubious. There are many fascinating stories involved, and I am still charmed by the language of the King James version, however, as a literary work, there is also a lot not to like, and the stories themselves often benefit from the retelling by other authors in other forms. However, I think those of us who do engage the bible, such as myself, do so because of a blend of other reasons.

But that's not the question. In answer to your question, I would say it is reasonable to presume that God is permanently omnipotent. If he at one time was omnipotent, then there was nothing that he could not do. He could have simply chosen to be permanently omnipotent, as that certainly lies within his zone of control. To suggest otherwise, I think, would depend upon showing he had compelling reason to choose to be less than omnipotent (see omnibenevolence for a counter), or that he was simply ignorant of the choice he faced (contrary to omniscience), or that he was negligent or made a mistake (contrary to His perfection).


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#25
RE: Permanent omnipotence?
(November 11, 2012 at 4:15 pm)DoubtVsFaith Wrote: There are theists who define omnipotence that way. And I'm sure that there are plenty of reasonably thinking Christians that do. Ryft from these forums for example.

There are Christians who don't believe that omnipotence means that God can create square circles or married bachelors because that simply doesn't make any sense.

Which is hilarious to me btw, to assign authority to logic in an argument about a god. Talk about worshipping at someone else's altar.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#26
RE: Permanent omnipotence?
In the hypothetical situation that the God of the Bible does exist and was omnipotent, he would still be omnipotent. Part of being omnipotent is that you can pretty much do anything and that includes maintain your omnipotence.
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"If you cling to something as the absolute truth and you are caught in it, when the truth comes in person to knock on your door you will refuse to let it in." ~ Siddhartha Gautama
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#27
RE: Permanent omnipotence?
It is ironic to me too, but it is nevertheless still more reasonable than believing that God can make square circles.
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#28
RE: Permanent omnipotence?
What can be done =/= what has been done, is done, or what will be done.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#29
RE: Permanent omnipotence?
That's true, but I miss your point.
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#30
RE: Permanent omnipotence?
More to those that might imagine that because god was once omnipotent (in the hypothetical) then that must mean that god will always be omnipotent. Or that omnipotence means that you can maintain you omnipotence (it doesn't mean that you -did- maintain your omnipotence, or that you will always maintain it..even if you could). Like I said, fuckers been appearring on eggos recently and not smiting cities.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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