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RE: Is atheism ever a faith?
October 9, 2008 at 4:31 am
(This post was last modified: October 9, 2008 at 4:37 am by Kyuuketsuki.)
(October 8, 2008 at 10:30 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: If I understand your definition of faith then I agree with you.
Sounds like you do (understand it) 
(October 8, 2008 at 10:30 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: My definition of faith however is: Belief 'not only' based on probability.
What I would call religious faith I guess.
(October 8, 2008 at 10:30 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: So if you're an atheist because you 'hate' god or 'just feel' he doesn't exist, but your disbelief in God is not only based on improbability, then I'd say that's faith in atheism.
Not sure about "just feel", I think I would say that was still atheism just not what I call "rational atheism" (where one arrives at an atheistic stance for rational reasons). Personally I don't believe that someone who hates a god can be defined as an atheist.
(October 8, 2008 at 10:30 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: If however your disbelief in God IS only based on improbability ...That's proper De-facto atheism I'd say.
Sounds like my rational atheism.
I'd suggest we have a definitions thread except that no one ever seems to be able to agree on such things
Kyu
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RE: Is atheism ever a faith?
October 9, 2008 at 10:51 am
(This post was last modified: October 9, 2008 at 10:58 am by Edwardo Piet.)
(October 8, 2008 at 10:30 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: If however your disbelief in God IS only based on improbability ...That's proper De-facto atheism I'd say.
Quote:Sounds like my rational atheism.
I'd suggest we have a definitions thread except that no one ever seems to be able to agree on such things
Kyu
Yeah I guess what I mean is....what you call irrational atheism is basically faith in atheism because it's not based on evidence just like faith in religion isn't....we just don't call it faith in atheism.
I'd be in favour of a definition thread...who cares if we never agree, (which we almost certainly won't) it could potenital for a great learning expeirence. And it's interesting too.
Besides I think that irrational atheism and faith in atheism are basically the same thing....
Basically what I mean is what you call 'irrational atheism' is basically a faith because it's not based on evidence...so it can result in a mindset-flip (like it did to me) or something similar that results in delusion just like religion is a delusion...so irrational atheism can be dangerous, because, like faith in religion...it's not a delusion; because despite believing (or disbelieving) the right things, it's for the wrong reasons: Intuition and preference rather than evidence and probability.
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RE: Is atheism ever a faith?
October 9, 2008 at 3:16 pm
Coming from a fundamental church I started out my atheist quest as an act of rebellion towards the God I once believed in.But as I delved deeper and deeper into the various modes of study and the evidence out there I became convinced that god whatever it may be does not exist.Now I just study god and religion in general as a hobby.Sometimes it gets repetitive but sometimes you find out some interesting things.
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RE: Is atheism ever a faith?
October 19, 2008 at 12:19 am
(This post was last modified: October 19, 2008 at 12:25 am by Bungy.)
(October 8, 2008 at 1:27 pm)chatpilot Wrote: I dont have faith that there is no god I truly have been convinced by the things I have learned about the topic to make a judgement call on this issue.I have no need for a god in my life and dont really see a place for a god in this world.Except to comfort the weak of mind and will.
how do you know there is no god or after life
Gnostic Atheism can be a faith (how can you possibly know there's no god)
Agnostic Atheism is not faith (Bold i s not a hair color)
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RE: Is atheism ever a faith?
October 19, 2008 at 12:27 am
(October 19, 2008 at 12:19 am)Bungy Wrote: (October 8, 2008 at 1:27 pm)chatpilot Wrote: I dont have faith that there is no god I truly have been convinced by the things I have learned about the topic to make a judgement call on this issue.I have no need for a god in my life and dont really see a place for a god in this world.Except to comfort the weak of mind and will.
how do you know there is no god or after life
Gnosic Atheism can be a faith (how can you possibly know there's no god)
Agnostic Atheism is not faith (Bold is not a hair color)
Exactly my point Bungy...THAT'S what I mean.
That's what I mean, how there are occasions when Atheism can be a 'faith', I don't mean faith as in it is religious in the sense of 'belief in God', but faith as in religious in the sense that its a faith because it atleast CAN have a significant proportion of its disbelief in God, not based on evidence, but simply based on false-intuiton, mild-ignorance, or possibly even suppressed or repressed hatred of God - in some occasions.
Hope that made sense, hope I got that right.
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RE: Is atheism ever a faith?
October 19, 2008 at 12:40 am
yep, everyone eventually realises and accepts we will never know while we're alive, if you think deeply enough about it. It is the contrary to intelligence to think you know. All other things in life are knowable except this one. It's just that gnostic atheists haven't got there yet
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RE: Is atheism ever a faith?
October 19, 2008 at 12:58 am
I don't think ANYTHING is TRULY knowable...gravity might be an illusion lol...just as God might be an illusion by pretending not to exist....
This might all be a dream.
If anything is 'proved' it could always be 'disproved' afterwards...the laws could change...I guess its possible that anything could happen or be true..there are so many imaginable (AND unimaginable) possibilites that noone has ever experienced yet in the history of mankind.
Or is that over-simplification?
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RE: Is atheism ever a faith?
October 19, 2008 at 6:03 am
(This post was last modified: October 19, 2008 at 6:05 am by Bungy.)
(October 19, 2008 at 12:58 am)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: Or is that over-simplification?
perhaps a bit of over enthusiasm. 
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RE: Is atheism ever a faith?
October 20, 2008 at 6:52 pm
I am comfortable not knowing all the answers as to where and how life began and the origins of the universe and this Earth.Science is a work in progress and we are wrong in some things but when we realize the error of our ways we just go back to the drawing board and work on other hypothesis or theories.Unlike faith,we don't claim to be absolutely write about everything simply because it was written or mystically revealed to someone thousands of years ago.A revelation is only a revelation to the person who claims to have recieved it,to the rest of us it's just hearsay.
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RE: Is atheism ever a faith?
October 20, 2008 at 8:11 pm
(October 20, 2008 at 6:52 pm)chatpilot Wrote: I am comfortable not knowing all the answers as to where and how life began and the origins of the universe and this Earth.Science is a work in progress and we are wrong in some things but when we realize the error of our ways we just go back to the drawing board and work on other hypothesis or theories.Unlike faith,we don't claim to be absolutely write about everything simply because it was written or mystically revealed to someone thousands of years ago.A revelation is only a revelation to the person who claims to have recieved it,to the rest of us it's just hearsay.
Yes, right on! Ramen!
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