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Will Religion and Athiesm ever compromise?
November 28, 2012 at 1:04 pm
Hi all
I wasn't sure how to entitle the thread, but here goes
I really dont feel that Religion could really disprove the scientific discoveries in the universe, evolution, natural selection etc though some of them are theories, they are pretty convincing. It seems like they have picked out bits that could fit with their beliefs. They have an overwhelming spiritual element to their belief system. Do you feel that we could ever 'meet' and respect that we 'think and feel' differently?
Personally I dont believe in there being a 'maker' or 'desginer' for life, there is too much evidence against that, I mean who made God?
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Closing statement of the debate with William Dembski at Prestonwood Baptist Church, Plano Texas November 18th 2010
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RE: Will Religion and Athiesm ever compromise?
November 28, 2012 at 1:14 pm
(This post was last modified: November 28, 2012 at 1:15 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
If the question is "can I as an atheist ever find common ground with a theist that leads me to respect them" yup, do it all the time.
If the question is "can I as an atheist ever find common ground with a theist that leads me to respect their beliefs" then no, most likely not. See the above.
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RE: Will Religion and Athiesm ever compromise?
November 28, 2012 at 1:28 pm
Quote:If the question is "can I as an atheist ever find common ground with a theist that leads me to respect them" yup, do it all the time.
I think that we, as humans, can find common ground with almost anyone. Most theists reject the worst parts of their religious beliefs and actually leave according to common sense and empathy, just like most atheists do.
No one, not even the most fundamentalist of the fundamentalists, can actually believe everyything that is written in the Bible. Indeed, most theists build their morality case by case, cherrypicking quotes who suit their ideas. The Bible is so long that you can find quote that support every kind of moral disposition.
The only main moral difference between atheists and theists is that we can easily acknowledge that the sources of our morality are ultimately other men, who are no less prone to failure than ourselves. The theists, to be consistent with theiur beliefs, postulate a supreme moral authority.
Defining this moral authority and what it entails, however, leads to many paradoxes and contradictions, so by the end of the day most theists just identify their own personal sense of right and wrong with a god, and they live in the exact state of moral uncertainty and social change that we all experience.
Sure, there are exceptions. Some literalist branches reject modernity and doubts in favor of a misguided search for eternal absolutes. Even they, though, have to compromise with reality. Those who don't end up getting themselves in serious trouble.
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RE: Will Religion and Athiesm ever compromise?
November 28, 2012 at 1:31 pm
(November 28, 2012 at 1:04 pm)Angenlina star Wrote: Hi all
I wasn't sure how to entitle the thread, but here goes
I really dont feel that Religion could really disprove the scientific discoveries in the universe, evolution, natural selection etc though some of them are theories, they are pretty convincing. It seems like they have picked out bits that could fit with their beliefs. They have an overwhelming spiritual element to their belief system. Do you feel that we could ever 'meet' and respect that we 'think and feel' differently?
Personally I dont believe in there being a 'maker' or 'desginer' for life, there is too much evidence against that, I mean who made God?
I could no more respect the different thinking of religion than I could respect the assertion that 2+2=5. Calling religion "spiritual" merely makes what otherwise would have been a totally meaningless term into an insult.
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RE: Will Religion and Athiesm ever compromise?
November 28, 2012 at 2:12 pm
It is hard to respect that others think differently when you believe the ultimate authority is on your side.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Will Religion and Athiesm ever compromise?
November 28, 2012 at 2:19 pm
Respect the person, not the stupid crap they believe in.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
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RE: Will Religion and Athiesm ever compromise?
November 28, 2012 at 3:00 pm
I respect a person's right to believe whatever they want, even if the beliefs are as stupid as shit. In no way am I obligated to respect the person or their beliefs, and people who believe stupid shit get very little respect from me.
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RE: Will Religion and Athiesm ever compromise?
November 28, 2012 at 3:46 pm
There can be no compromise with religion.
You are currently experiencing a lucky and very brief window of awareness, sandwiched in between two periods of timeless and utter nothingness. So why not make the most of it, and stop wasting your life away trying to convince other people that there is something else? The reality is obvious.
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RE: Will Religion and Athiesm ever compromise?
November 28, 2012 at 4:10 pm
(November 28, 2012 at 2:19 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Respect the person, not the stupid crap they believe in.
Respect the person, maybe, but definitely not so much, if they believe in stupid crap.
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RE: Will Religion and Athiesm ever compromise?
November 28, 2012 at 4:34 pm
(November 28, 2012 at 1:04 pm)Angenlina star Wrote: I really dont feel that Religion could really disprove the scientific discoveries in the universe, evolution, natural selection etc though some of them are theories, they are pretty convincing. It seems like they have picked out bits that could fit with their beliefs. They have an overwhelming spiritual element to their belief system. Do you feel that we could ever 'meet' and respect that we 'think and feel' differently?
Personally I dont believe in there being a 'maker' or 'desginer' for life, there is too much evidence against that, I mean who made God?
The people who do behave in this manner don't even try to disprove scientific discoveries; that would entail actually doing some research and publishing papers. Far easier just to muddy the waters, poison the well and generally twist the actual scientific discoveries to make them appear to be wrong, ridiculous, and when all else fails, a global conspiracy. I wish I was making that up.
Oh, and just to clarify: the reason that theories are convincing is because they are theories. This may be a useful resource: National Academy of Sciences - "Terms Used in Describing the Nature of Science"
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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