Why Are So Many On Welfare

[Autumnlicious]

It is often said that extremes of the left (authoritarianism) and extremes of the right (authoritarianism) meet in the center.

When the state devolves to monitoring every communication, using police to terrorize and threats of detention to enforce compliance, it begins to lose the aura of "left" or "right" and simply becomes what it is -- reprehensible.

[TaraJo]

It is often said that extremes of the left (authoritarianism) and extremes of the right (authoritarianism) meet in the center.

Yep, big time. As far as economic issues go, my big worry is corporations and the govenment becoming the same, big, malicious entity. If we move too far to the left, over-regulation causes the government to take over corporate entities. If we move too far to the right, the corporations use their unchecked influence to take over the government.

That's why I'm a leftie, by the way; I think we're much closer to government being taken over by corporations than we are from corporations being taken over by government.

[Kousbroek]

I think we're much closer to government being taken over by corporations than we are from corporations being taken over by government.

I'm afraid that already happened a long time ago ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY

[cratehorus]

Yes, here's a question: How is money / work slavery?

slavery = forcing someone to work, therefore since anyone in our "modern" society, will starve and die because they do not have a job, even though such a person who could surviive all by themselves, they could be strong, smart, and trained in all sorts of survival techniques, but still they are not allowed to buy a house without money, live in a shelter not coded by the the fascist government, and grow food on land tht isn't their own, fish in rivers that are owned by some billionare because they likes the pretty view from their castle/ mansion, all the problems that exist are directly realted to money.

Remove money from the system and these problems go away, that's a major problem with fascists they beleive that power and money will "solve" all our problems, it won't it because in fact it causes them. The truth is money is barbaric, it was acceptable or ancient civilizations (just like slavery at the end of a whip), but it cannot be around forvever. Most of your "wants" are designed by the capitlists, you wan't a car that can go 150mph yet you don't need a car that goes that fast, you want jewels, even though their nothing but shiny pebbles no more valuable than asphalt. you want 15 bedroom house when you only have a few kids. Or maybe none at all.

Capitalism will fail, it is ineveitable,the only question is when we will reach communism again, not if. It is only whether or not we choose world communism, or barbaric communism. Not whether or not we can keep capitalism, going for as long as possible, capitalsim in order to exist guarantees scarcity, in order for it work a large mass of the population must be forced to go without, they must starve.

Here's another: What the fuck is a crypto-fascist neo nazi teabagging klansmen, and why do you think I am one?

can you prove your not one? you support the Paul dynasty, most people who support ron paul are usually people who fall for his propaganda, and its undertsandable because he is very good at white supremacist propaganda, you could say he's a master of it. But when people learn things like he's a neo nazi who wants abolish not only every program in America but the country of America itslef, then they usually back off, you dont , and you continue to vehemently support him so I assume your a white supremacist.

[Justtristo]

The thing that surprises me about America is so many people who are working full time jobs are really struggling.

We have lots of people who are struggling in Australia, however a lot of them aren't not working and are dependent wholly on social security benefits. However it is unlikely for people with full time jobs, even in minimum wage jobs to be really struggling in Australia.

[jonb]

Even in full time work, large numbers of brits have to go cap in hand for benefits. Most of the social security budget goes on people who are working, if the retired are excluded from the equation. It is about asset prices, in britan the social security budget is used to underpin the housing market which increases rental costs to the point now most workers have to be subsidised by the state to afford the family home.

[Annik]

No one forces you to work. You work or you starve, but it's still a choice.

[Aractus]

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This way of keeping wages so low that employees slide into poverty and thereby into state welfare dependence whilest still being employed - would be considered as a abuse of state institutions here and would therefor have legal consequences.

We have something called "Kurzarbeit" in Germany, meaning that a company in finacial trouble can shorten the contracts and wages for a brief period of time to get the company back on track again. But it is bound by law to keep the wages on a level which will not let the employees fall into poverty.

Generaly there are minimum wages throughout the entire economy here. But they are not legislated by the goverment.
The law only bindes companies to form "Tarifparteien" such as labor unions and representatives of the management - which then have to engage in debate to determine the minimum wage - which is then signed into the contract (Tarifvertrag). - This forces managment and employees into debate and therefor hinders decisions being made ignoring the arguments and needs of one participant.

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You have the same problem as the USA, except for the fact that your country has reasonable average wages. It doesn't change the fact that businesses can pay their workers tiny wages.

Although you have the much bigger problem of being a part of the EU. Grouping together States with such radically different fiscal situations was always going to lead to the problems that have been created by it. This is the problem the USA has, except that it has had the same problem for a much longer time. Their country shouldn't have one economic model because their states are so diverse. The EU certainly shouldn't have created a single economy for countries that had such different economies to begin with.

Have fun bailing out Greece.

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Generally, that's what already happens. Local minimum wage laws in places like San Fransisco or New York City have the minimum wage set much higher than the federal minimum wage. The reasoning behind it makes sense, too: it costs more to live in places like that then it does to live in suburban Oklahoma.

That being said, I'd love to see the minimum wage set to index based on inflation/cost of living and for that index to be somewhat regional. But I'm one of those leftist, pinko socialists.

What the USA considers "hard left" is anything from centre-right to the actual communism/socialism left. Class divisions are what created the 2011 riots in London. They lead to further problems for society - welfare dependence as mentioned is one, but the USA provides shit-all welfare anyway. Violence and crime is another one. Black markets, loan sharks (or pay-day-lenders/unsecured-loans), etc.

Oh and what I find most disturbing of all is that your so-called conservative parties are anything but fiscally conservative. The level of federal debt in the USA is totally ridiculous, why do you want to spend your children, and your grandchildren's money instead of leaving them an inheritance????

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The thing that surprises me about America is so many people who are working full time jobs are really struggling.

We have lots of people who are struggling in Australia, however a lot of them aren't not working and are dependent wholly on social security benefits. However it is unlikely for people with full time jobs, even in minimum wage jobs to be really struggling in Australia.

Define "unlikely"? Australians generally don't have a large expendable income to start off with. Gambling addiction, Alcohol dependence, Drug addiction, etc, can all play a significant role into forcing families to struggle. We have a very high cost of living, often people move from one state to another, are left with no money and then find it difficult to find the work they were expecting. With a family this can cause great struggles. Medical expenses can also cause a family to go into great debt. Being unable to work due to medical reasons or injury. Loosing your job, and being unable to find another that pays the same wage. High property prices combined with our high interest rates can cause families to struggle to make ends meet. Rising cost of living (unexpectedly higher utilities bills), high cost of groceries, expenses at Christmas can all contribute to cause families to struggle. Uninsured vehicles being totalled. We have a huge variety of avenues that cause people to struggle.

[Something completely different]

You have the same problem as the USA, except for the fact that your country has reasonable average wages. It doesn't change the fact that businesses can pay their workers tiny wages.

No we dont. We have mandetory minimum holiday days, and if the unions strike - they have a right to and cannot be fired since we have legal dissmisal protection.
The entire concept is centered arround keeping the state out of such economic matters as much as possible.
Companies are pritty much forced to work together with their employees here in order to be productive.
It only happens very seldomly that matters are so complicated that they go to the high court of labor.

Although you have the much bigger problem of being a part of the EU. Grouping together States with such radically different fiscal situations was always going to lead to the problems that have been created by it. This is the problem the USA has, except that it has had the same problem for a much longer time. Their country shouldn't have one economic model because their states are so diverse. The EU certainly shouldn't have created a single economy for countries that had such different economies to begin with.

The EU was a custom union up untill the crisis.
The main political agreements within the Eu until then were agreements on a general human rights charta and invormental regulations.

The sole purpose of a custom or tariff union is to create the field for a diverse market - there is no such thing as one european economy regulated by one single european institution.

Taxes in Ireland are low - in France they are high, economic regulations in the UK are low in France they are strickt.

Have fun bailing out Greece.

Actualy we only give one quarter of the money the rest comes from the IMF and the other members of the european central bank.

I think you are confusing a few things.
There never was a united regulatory institution for the economy.

We united our curencies - which was very overhasty since greece`s economy and financial status was a catastrophy before they eaven entered the EU.

[Justtristo]

Define "unlikely"? Australians generally don't have a large expendable income to start off with. Gambling addiction, Alcohol dependence, Drug addiction, etc, can all play a significant role into forcing families to struggle. We have a very high cost of living, often people move from one state to another, are left with no money and then find it difficult to find the work they were expecting. With a family this can cause great struggles. Medical expenses can also cause a family to go into great debt. Being unable to work due to medical reasons or injury. Loosing your job, and being unable to find another that pays the same wage. High property prices combined with our high interest rates can cause families to struggle to make ends meet. Rising cost of living (unexpectedly higher utilities bills), high cost of groceries, expenses at Christmas can all contribute to cause families to struggle. Uninsured vehicles being totalled. We have a huge variety of avenues that cause people to struggle.

Well let me start off by stating that the ABS estimated that the annual salary of all workers in Australia to be AUD 55,000, while in the
United States it slightly less than USD 40,000. Even accounting for an overvalued Australian dollar, Australian workers are getting paid slightly more than their American counterparts.

Secondly, in really struggling I meant people having to go to food-banks or soup kitchens in order to get enough to eat.

Thirdly, given our overvalued dollar it is hard to accurate compare the cost of living in Australia in comparison to other Western Countries. I can concede our cost of living overall is higher than other western nations. However taxes in Australia are quite low in comparison to other western nations (expect the United States). Also not to mention Australian families not having to face personal bankruptcy in the event of major medical treatment, which happens a lot in the United States. Because many families can afford health insurance, even if they have jobs.