Free Will

[The Grand Nudger]

In the context of the OP, couldn't it be the case that exercising free will causes all that brain activity, rather than being the result of it? To the marionette of the mind, who holds the strings and how would we tell the difference anyway?

Could be, now, off to find me some ghosts! But how will I know when I've trapped them?

[Brian37]

In the context of atheism, is there such a thing as free will? Or are all decisions made simply the result of neurons, dendrites, action potentials, and molecules bouncing around in my head?

If there is no free will, does this mean all actions committed are simply reactions to what has occurred around you rather than an actual conscious decision to do something?

No, there is no such thing as free will.

In science, and even many atheists have a hard time understanding the following.

Nature and the universe operate with BOTH order and random, they are not separate, but overlap.

Take a hurricane for example. The "order" part is the climate and conditions that we observe that determine that it will happen. The "random" part is the size of it, it's path, and the amount of rain.

A sperm and egg make a baby(order). Millions of sperm compete for one egg(random so we cant determine which one will).

This does not make humans godless robots as the believers would have you think. It merely means that there is nothing magic about life. There is both order and random in life so it depends what we are talking about.

So no, there is no such thing as "free will". There are merely things we do or don't do and our behaviors are based on both order and random based on multiple factors such as genes, upbringing, environment and conditions of the moment, and even unexpected sudden input.

"Free will" is the childish religious version of merely saying "we make choices", which is nothing close to the reality of evolution which operates on both order and random.

[Zen Badger]

Freewill is simply the ability to make unpredictable choices. Causality is irrelevant. Regardless of the circumstances leading up to a given situation a conscious individual can still make a choice that is not 100% predictable.

[Whateverist]

In the context of atheism, is there such a thing as free will? Or are all decisions made simply the result of neurons, dendrites, action potentials, and molecules bouncing around in my head?

If there is no free will, does this mean all actions committed are simply reactions to what has occurred around you rather than an actual conscious decision to do something?

No, there is no such thing as free will.

Well, in addition to the "free will" necessary for the priests to say god is justified to condemn you to hell (#1 below), there is also the legal meaning(#2). The second sense of free will is indifferent to what processes lead to the choice you make, but only that the choice was the result of your process and not mine.

free will
n
1. (Philosophy)
a. the apparent human ability to make choices that are not externally determined
b. the doctrine that such human freedom of choice is not illusory Compare determinism
c. (as modifier) a free-will decision
2. the ability to make a choice without coercion he left of his own free will: I did not influence him

Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003

In science, and even many atheists have a hard time understanding the following.

Nature and the universe operate with BOTH order and random, they are not separate, but overlap.

Take a hurricane for example. The "order" part is the climate and conditions that we observe that determine that it will happen. The "random" part is the size of it, it's path, and the amount of rain.

A sperm and egg make a baby(order). Millions of sperm compete for one egg(random so we cant determine which one will).

This does not make humans godless robots as the believers would have you think. It merely means that there is nothing magic about life. There is both order and random in life so it depends what we are talking about.

So no, there is no such thing as "free will". There are merely things we do or don't do and our behaviors are based on both order and random based on multiple factors such as genes, upbringing, environment and conditions of the moment, and even unexpected sudden input.

"Free will" is the childish religious version of merely saying "we make choices", which is nothing close to the reality of evolution which operates on both order and random.

But are you content with the childish, religious alternative of saying "we don't make choices"? The actual state of affairs would seem to be more complex than either of those alternatives. I mean, some actions rather than their alternatives get made. Can we at least agree that the processes which lead to the alternatives which become actualized are on-board, or do determinists truly find puppet strings leading away from the individual to ... what? If we are not the choice makers, who or what is? It does no good to kick the problems of agenthood down the road. Or are we and every decision emanating from us simply a force of nature like those hurricanes, complex as hell but ultimately traceable to external conditions? (The ghost inside my machine says that doesn't fit.)

[genkaus]

Freewill is simply the ability to make unpredictable choices. Causality is irrelevant.

Is that how you define free will? This is the first time I've come across that definition. However, if that's the case, then causality is still relevant, since knowing the cause and making the prediction go hand in hand.

Regardless of the circumstances leading up to a given situation a conscious individual can still make a choice that is not 100% predictable.

Depends on who does the predicting.

[Cyberman]

Could be, now, off to find me some ghosts! But how will I know when I've trapped them?

When this happens:

[Zen Badger]

Freewill is simply the ability to make unpredictable choices. Causality is irrelevant.

Is that how you define free will? This is the first time I've come across that definition.

What else could it be?
I'm reminded of this..... "Under the most rigorously controlled conditions of pressure, temperature,volume, humidity, and other variables, the organism will do as it damn well pleases."
-- Harvard's Law

However, if that's the case, then causality is still relevant, since knowing the cause and making the prediction go hand in hand.

Doesn't matter, since the prediction cannot be 100% certain.

Regardless of the circumstances leading up to a given situation a conscious individual can still make a choice that is not 100% predictable.

Depends on who does the predicting.

Who would that be? God?

[genkaus]

What else could it be?

How about the definition given by Whateverist?

free will
n
1. (Philosophy)
a. the apparent human ability to make choices that are not externally determined
b. the doctrine that such human freedom of choice is not illusory Compare determinism
c. (as modifier) a free-will decision
2. the ability to make a choice without coercion he left of his own free will: I did not influence him

Doesn't matter, since the prediction cannot be 100% certain.

That depends on the knowledge of the causal chain.

Who would that be? God?

Or someone with the required amount of knowledge.

[Brian37]

No, there is no such thing as free will.

Well, in addition to the "free will" necessary for the priests to say god is justified to condemn you to hell (#1 below), there is also the legal meaning(#2). The second sense of free will is indifferent to what processes lead to the choice you make, but only that the choice was the result of your process and not mine.

free will
n
1. (Philosophy)
a. the apparent human ability to make choices that are not externally determined
b. the doctrine that such human freedom of choice is not illusory Compare determinism
c. (as modifier) a free-will decision
2. the ability to make a choice without coercion he left of his own free will: I did not influence him

Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003

In science, and even many atheists have a hard time understanding the following.

Nature and the universe operate with BOTH order and random, they are not separate, but overlap.

Take a hurricane for example. The "order" part is the climate and conditions that we observe that determine that it will happen. The "random" part is the size of it, it's path, and the amount of rain.

A sperm and egg make a baby(order). Millions of sperm compete for one egg(random so we cant determine which one will).

This does not make humans godless robots as the believers would have you think. It merely means that there is nothing magic about life. There is both order and random in life so it depends what we are talking about.

So no, there is no such thing as "free will". There are merely things we do or don't do and our behaviors are based on both order and random based on multiple factors such as genes, upbringing, environment and conditions of the moment, and even unexpected sudden input.

"Free will" is the childish religious version of merely saying "we make choices", which is nothing close to the reality of evolution which operates on both order and random.

But are you content with the childish, religious alternative of saying "we don't make choices"? The actual state of affairs would seem to be more complex than either of those alternatives. I mean, some actions rather than their alternatives get made. Can we at least agree that the processes which lead to the alternatives which become actualized are on-board, or do determinists truly find puppet strings leading away from the individual to ... what? If we are not the choice makers, who or what is? It does no good to kick the problems of agenthood down the road. Or are we and every decision emanating from us simply a force of nature like those hurricanes, complex as hell but ultimately traceable to external conditions? (The ghost inside my machine says that doesn't fit.)

I never said we don't make choices. I said life is BOTH order and chaos that overlap. "Free will" is a comic book word for "choices". And even our choices are still determined by our genes, biology, upbringing, and input.

We are complex precisely because we evolved with both choice and determining factors as mentioned, because they intermingle and overlap. They are really not separate which people far to often treat them as such.

There is no ghost in the machine, there are people who simply make up superstitious words to explain the world around them.

[The Grand Nudger]

Or within them.