Since it seems we have a new member who doesn't understand the concept, I thought I'd explain using an old favorite of mine.
"I have tits that shoot out watermelons." -- AK (Annik)
"I don't believe you." --RS (Random Stranger)
"Well you can't prove me wrong. It's beyond current science to test my watermelon tits. You should just believe me, since it should be obvious I have this ability. Did I mention that I fight crime with them?" -- AK
"No, no, no! You have to prove your powers before I can just accept them." -- RS
"How handy! You see, I have these voices that tell me about my powers and when I should use them. AND I have this issue of the National Enquirer that did an article on me. There's your proof." -- AK
"You're being squirriely; that doesn't satisfy the burden." -- RS
"Well, that's just a diversionary tactic and until you prove me wrong, you're just going to have to assume I'm right." --AK
"Good luck with that, crazy." --RS
What happened here? AK asserted a positive claim when she said her breasts had crime-fighting powers. Along with this claim comes what is called the "Burden of Proof". What this means is that when one claims something to be true/false/whatever, the burden of verifying the claim falls on that person. RS knows about the burden of proof. He starts out from a neutral position of non-belief. He requires some evidence before he just believes in something as strange as voices that bestow mystical watermelon powers. When he asked for such proof (as AK made the claim), she tries to pass the buck. You see, at this point in time, we don't have any way to test AK's breasts for a watermelon launching capability. It seems highly improbably and biologically impossible, but the universe is a big, strange place and we don't have it all figured out. However, it's safe to assume the odds of such a unnatural creature that defies what we know about the body existing are slim. AK says that we should take it on faith that she has these powers, that she has some documentation (that has been found to be irregular and unreliable in the past) that proves it. RS recognizes that this isn't reliable evidence and is no where near solid enough to back such a fantastic claim. He tries to tell AK that that isn't enough proof for him to take her word, especially when it would be so easy for her to demonstrate her powers (she says later on that the voices forbid her from acting without their approval). She claims the burden of proof is just a distraction and doesn't really matter. Realizing this conversation is going no where fast, RS decides to end the dialogue.
Now all of this may seem a little lopsided, so let's tie it back to something we're more familiar with:
"God can save us all, he is the king of the universe." -- AK
"I don't believe that." -- RS
"How can you not? We have air to breathe and water to drink! Modern science can't disprove my god. He speaks to me and tells me He loves me. It's obvious He is Lord!" -- AK
"No, no, no! You have to prove your god before I can just accept it." -- RS
"Well I have this book-- It's very old-- that says the He is Lord. I have the Bible and science can't prove that it isn't true. You should just believe God exists and have some faith. He'll come to you if you just worship him." -- AK
"That book is inconsistent with itself and history. I can't take that as evidence. The burden of proof remains unsatisfied." -- RS
"I'm not responsible for it. I believe in Him because He has shown himself to me. He'll show Himself to you and He can save you from Hell. Just believe." --AK
"Good luck with that, crazy." --RS
As we can see here, AK is now taking the role of a Christian. She believes in her Bible, despite its flaws, and doesn't believe it is on her shoulders to prove it. In this case, assuming God exists is a positive claim. Non-belief is the neutral position. This is why it falls on the theist to prove such a being can exist and then that it is their god on top of it. Whenever discussing your god in debate, you need to be prepared to defend yourself. You're coming in with a positive claim: "-Blank- exists".
I encourage more folks to add onto this.
"I have tits that shoot out watermelons." -- AK (Annik)
"I don't believe you." --RS (Random Stranger)
"Well you can't prove me wrong. It's beyond current science to test my watermelon tits. You should just believe me, since it should be obvious I have this ability. Did I mention that I fight crime with them?" -- AK
"No, no, no! You have to prove your powers before I can just accept them." -- RS
"How handy! You see, I have these voices that tell me about my powers and when I should use them. AND I have this issue of the National Enquirer that did an article on me. There's your proof." -- AK
"You're being squirriely; that doesn't satisfy the burden." -- RS
"Well, that's just a diversionary tactic and until you prove me wrong, you're just going to have to assume I'm right." --AK
"Good luck with that, crazy." --RS
What happened here? AK asserted a positive claim when she said her breasts had crime-fighting powers. Along with this claim comes what is called the "Burden of Proof". What this means is that when one claims something to be true/false/whatever, the burden of verifying the claim falls on that person. RS knows about the burden of proof. He starts out from a neutral position of non-belief. He requires some evidence before he just believes in something as strange as voices that bestow mystical watermelon powers. When he asked for such proof (as AK made the claim), she tries to pass the buck. You see, at this point in time, we don't have any way to test AK's breasts for a watermelon launching capability. It seems highly improbably and biologically impossible, but the universe is a big, strange place and we don't have it all figured out. However, it's safe to assume the odds of such a unnatural creature that defies what we know about the body existing are slim. AK says that we should take it on faith that she has these powers, that she has some documentation (that has been found to be irregular and unreliable in the past) that proves it. RS recognizes that this isn't reliable evidence and is no where near solid enough to back such a fantastic claim. He tries to tell AK that that isn't enough proof for him to take her word, especially when it would be so easy for her to demonstrate her powers (she says later on that the voices forbid her from acting without their approval). She claims the burden of proof is just a distraction and doesn't really matter. Realizing this conversation is going no where fast, RS decides to end the dialogue.
Now all of this may seem a little lopsided, so let's tie it back to something we're more familiar with:
"God can save us all, he is the king of the universe." -- AK
"I don't believe that." -- RS
"How can you not? We have air to breathe and water to drink! Modern science can't disprove my god. He speaks to me and tells me He loves me. It's obvious He is Lord!" -- AK
"No, no, no! You have to prove your god before I can just accept it." -- RS
"Well I have this book-- It's very old-- that says the He is Lord. I have the Bible and science can't prove that it isn't true. You should just believe God exists and have some faith. He'll come to you if you just worship him." -- AK
"That book is inconsistent with itself and history. I can't take that as evidence. The burden of proof remains unsatisfied." -- RS
"I'm not responsible for it. I believe in Him because He has shown himself to me. He'll show Himself to you and He can save you from Hell. Just believe." --AK
"Good luck with that, crazy." --RS
As we can see here, AK is now taking the role of a Christian. She believes in her Bible, despite its flaws, and doesn't believe it is on her shoulders to prove it. In this case, assuming God exists is a positive claim. Non-belief is the neutral position. This is why it falls on the theist to prove such a being can exist and then that it is their god on top of it. Whenever discussing your god in debate, you need to be prepared to defend yourself. You're coming in with a positive claim: "-Blank- exists".
I encourage more folks to add onto this.
![[Image: SigBarSping_zpscd7e35e1.png]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i169.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu224%2FUchiha_Kina%2FTags%2FSigBarSping_zpscd7e35e1.png)
