How is a gun a 'tool'?

[Ryantology]

Show me an actual example of someone comparing a firearm with other tools and I'll gladly evaluate it. However, it is not true that most pro-gun people do this, and if the occasional nut does it, it really doesn't change my opinion of guns anyway.

All the direct examples you could want. And that doesn't count other, very similar, defenses of guns such as "well, you better ban cars, too" which are also very common and not exclusive to the nutjobs. And the only reason to do this is to suggest that guns are less dangerous than they really are, which strikes me as evidence of the sort of irresponsible attitude that should make one ineligible to possess one.

I think you're being pretty facetious. My understanding of Ryantology's OP was that he's pointing out the trivialisation that occurs when people compare firearms with other tools.

That is exactly the point I was making. If you compare a gun to any object which is not designed solely and specifically to maim or kill, your comparison is fundamentally dishonest.

I used the dictionary to point out that only the vaguest definition of 'tool' can apply to guns, but that's an aside. Words have common associations. When the term 'tool' is used as a comparison with guns, it is done with the expectation that the listener will mentally compare guns to things you buy at Home Depot, not with the expectation that they will take look at a dictionary and make a more nuanced evaluation of the statement.

[Napoléon]

Nobody in this thread is actually comparing a firearm to any kind of tools like hammers, saws, drills, wrenches, prybars, etc. and etc! That's just an argument you're trying to fabricate....

So you weren't trivialising the damage that a gun can cause with that of a normal household tool?

the picture I posted earlier was meant to be a joke

Jokes aside, you're still making a comparison between a gun and normal household items. Makes no difference whether it is in jest. The fact that it is a joke is completely besides the fact that you are making that comparison.

I'm not fabricating any arguments, I thought what you were doing was pretty obvious.

[Tiberius]

All the direct examples you could want.

Sorry, but those aren't examples of people comparing guns with other tools; those are statements that a gun is a tool, and only a tool, which is true by the definition.

Hell, a circular saw is only a tool, but it can still do a heck of a lot of damage when in the wrong hands. Do you honestly think when people say "guns are only tools", they mean they should be as commonplace and free to use as hammers? Not even the pro-gun crowd are saying everyone should have unlimited access to guns; a lot of us are in favour of licenses, training, background checks, mental health checks, etc.

I've still never seen someone compare a gun in the way you suggested in your OP.

This is what you said:

A common trait among the pro-gun crowd is to refer to a gun as a 'tool', as if they are no different from hammers or socket wrenches.

So, do you have any examples of someone referring to a gun as a "tool" in that way; i.e. in a way which suggests they are "no different" from hammers or socket wrenches?

[Ryantology]

Again, you are taking a semantic approach to the term 'tool' that simply does not exist in the wide scope of the debate until it is specifically questioned. When you say a gun is 'only' a tool, a comparison to mundane tools is certainly implied and what the speaker hopes the listener thinks, though the comparisons tend to other mundane items such as cars or household chemicals (CUZ THEY CAN KILL TOO). A 'tool' just like any other. Except there are no other tools used primarily to maim and kill people, which is the sole function of many varieties of guns.

The honest approach would be to call a weapon a weapon and justify why people need weapons, instead of suggesting (of course nobody ever says it outright, that would just be stupid) that guns are benign items which are no more dangerous than any other household item.

[A Theist]

Again, you are taking a semantic approach to the term 'tool' that simply does not exist in the wide scope of the debate until it is specifically questioned. When you say a gun is 'only' a tool, a comparison to mundane tools is certainly implied and what the speaker hopes the listener thinks, though the comparisons tend to other mundane items such as cars or household chemicals (CUZ THEY CAN KILL TOO). A 'tool' just like any other. Except there are no other tools used primarily to maim and kill people, which is the sole function of many varieties of guns.

The honest approach would be to call a weapon a weapon and justify why people need weapons, instead of suggesting (of course nobody ever says it outright, that would just be stupid) that guns are benign items which are no more dangerous than any other household item.

Except there are no other tools used primarily to maim and kill people,

A 2011 FBI report showed that more people were killed with Hammers and clubs than with rifles and shotguns...

In 2011, there were 323 murders committed with a rifle but 496 murders committed with hammers and clubs. There were 356 murders in which a shotgun was the deadly weapon of choice.

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/01/0...-shotguns/

Weapon of choice which was used primarily to maim and kill people...

[Zen Badger]

And how many mass killings in the style of Colombine or Sandy Hook have been carried out with a hammer?

[A Theist]

And how many mass killings in the style of Colombine or Sandy Hook have been carried out with a hammer?

496 murders committed with hammers and clubs looks pretty massive to me.

[Ryantology]

[quote='A Theist' pid='388854' dateline='1358684788']
A 2011 FBI report showed that more people were killed with Hammers and clubs than with rifles and shotguns...

In 2011, there were 323 murders committed with a rifle but 496 murders committed with hammers and clubs. There were 356 murders in which a shotgun was the deadly weapon of choice.

1. Cool. There was 7,543 murders committed with handguns in 2005. Nice job leaving that little detail out.
2. It doesn't matter how many murders are committed with hammers. The overwhelming majority of hammers are used to pound nails. Guns have no purpose other than to kill and maim.

Thanks for being the perfect example of what I'm talking about.

[A Theist]

[quote='A Theist' pid='388854' dateline='1358684788']
A 2011 FBI report showed that more people were killed with Hammers and clubs than with rifles and shotguns...

In 2011, there were 323 murders committed with a rifle but 496 murders committed with hammers and clubs. There were 356 murders in which a shotgun was the deadly weapon of choice.

1. Cool. There was 7,543 murders committed with handguns in 2005. Nice job leaving that little detail out.
2. It doesn't matter how many murders are committed with hammers. The overwhelming majority of hammers are used to pound nails. Guns have no purpose other than to kill and maim.

Thanks for being the perfect example of what I'm talking about.

1. Cool. There was 7,543 murders committed with handguns in 2005. Nice job leaving that little detail out.

...I focused on rifles because it's mainly assault rifles that Barack's administration and gun control advocates are targeting.

2. It doesn't matter how many murders are committed with hammers. The overwhelming majority of hammers are used to pound nails. Guns have no purpose other than to kill and maim.

...and you also said,

Except there are no other tools used primarily to maim and kill people,

...but in 2011, there were 323 murders committed with a rifle and 496 murders committed with hammers and clubs...maybe it doesn't matter to you how many people were murdered by hammers compared to rifles, but it mattered to the FBI, and their 2011 report proved, that in the wrong hands, a tool such as a hammer can also be used as a weapon to maim and kill people.

[Ryantology]

...I focused on rifles because it's mainly assault rifles that Barack's administration and gun control advocates are targeting.

Which is laudable, but going after handguns should be the top priority. Obviously.

...and you also said,

Except there are no other tools used primarily to maim and kill people,

...but in 2011, there were 323 murders committed with a rifle and 496 murders committed with hammers and clubs...maybe it doesn't matter to you how many people were murdered by hammers compared to rifles, but it mattered to the FBI, and their 2011 report proved, that in the wrong hands, a tool such as a hammer can also be used as a weapon to maim and kill people.

I used the word 'primarily'. See it up there? I take it you are not familiar with this word, because your posts repeatedly seem to ignore the fact that I use it.