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Are the USA and China "peace-loving nations"?
#1
Are the USA and China "peace-loving nations"?
It's come to my attention that some people are of the opinion that the USA and China are "peace-loving nations". Indeed this argument is an interesting one, and we only have to look throughout history to see whether we consider the rise and fall of nations as peace-loving or not.

The Roman empire was also a peace-loving nation, or at least that's how they saw themselves. But what about all the Jews they enslaved in the first century, or what about all the "primitive" nations that they "liberated"? Sure, from their opinion they were brining peace and prosperity to these places by overthrowing existing rule and order and bringing their rule and power.

Well not much has changed. The USA and China are a lot like the Roman empire. Other nations they see as developed and civilized, they're unlikely to invade. But if they see the nations as primitive or as uncivilized, then they have no hesitation in declaring war, leading an invasion and overthrowing the governments.

But there's also a personal side to this as well, that we shouldn't forget. Victims of the USA's system include David Hicks, Manadel al-Jamadi, and Sean Baker. Hicks was detained without charge, a charge was invented, and then he was convicted of it. That conviction has been overthrown because the charge was frivolous. Al-Jamadi was murdered in cold blood by US troops while he was a prisoner. Baker posed as a prisoner at Guantanamo, he war his military uniform underneath prison clothes and had a safe-word. The Guantanamo staff were not told who he was, and were sent in to retrieve him from his cell. He was beaten so badly that he suffered brain damage and now has seizures as a result of this single incident. All this despite screaming the safe-word and telling the screws that he was US military!

I've mentioned before that there is no justification for torture according to the UN convention on the matter. Ultimately the person who authorized the use of torture at Guantanamo was George W. Bush. We have never seen him, Dick Cheney, Barak Obama or George Tenet put on charges for torture, let alone anyone else. Now this is me talking, Aractus, you know I'm no left-wing tree-hugging humanitarian hippie. If I had the means I would have no problem putting these people under citizen's arrest and escorting them to the World Court in the Netherlands to face charges.

So the question is - are they peace-loving? Well to us - to Australians that is - then yes, they're peace-loving. They both want to trade with us, peacefully and diplomatically. What about Tibet or Iraq? Well not so peace-loving there are they? And it's patterned behaviour - history repeats itself - the strongest indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour - USA and China are indeed peace-loving to some nations, but to others they are far, far from peace-loving.

Your thoughts are welcome .....
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50. -LINK

The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK


"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke
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#2
RE: Are the USA and China "peace-loving nations"?
Nations have interests, not principles.

(P.S. The jews got what was coming to them.)
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#3
RE: Are the USA and China "peace-loving nations"?
Just to be clear, the premise of this thread is bullshit. No one said China or the U.S. were peace-loving nations. It was stated, and inflated by you, that the two nations prefer peace with one another. Now, carry on with the histrionics.
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#4
RE: Are the USA and China "peace-loving nations"?
^ People are allowed to have their own opinions on this Shell, I simply enjoy sharing mine. Big Grin
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50. -LINK

The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK


"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke
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#5
RE: Are the USA and China "peace-loving nations"?
Yes, it is okay to have your opinion. I don't even necessarily disagree with all of it. However, the premise is that some people think they are peace-loving nations. Since you have no reason for making this statement, the entire thing falls apart.
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#6
RE: Are the USA and China "peace-loving nations"?
I think its a little bit laughable to call America peace loving, with the history of war involvement america has had, not that theres anything wrong with america being the bully im fine with that, in history there always seems to be the big bully of the world, wether its the romans, the vikings, the british empire or the americans, im glad its not a muslim empire or something like that.
If youre just looking at wars since world war 2, i cant think of a war china has been involved in, and i always get the impression of china being a big but disorganised country, even the british empire managed to take hong kong off china because they wouldnt buy our drugs we were selling them, back in the day when the british empire was a big drug dealing, pimping, slave taking gangster of the world.
America on the other hand has been involved in CRAZY amounts of war since world war 2


Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.

Impersonation is treason.





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#7
RE: Are the USA and China "peace-loving nations"?
You forgot to mention the British Empire and its heavy-handed approach towards its colonies in Africa and Asia, most notably in India.

As Min put it, nations have interests, not principles. Nations love peace when it serves them better than war, and nations love war when it serves them better than peace. China proclaims itself as a nation of peace only because that makes it a more appealing business partner towards richer, established nations and leagues, such as the USA or the European Union, for example. If it was a belligerent military power, like, say, Iran or North Korea, trying to get some kind of global legitimacy would be greatly hindered, especially in terms in trade, something that Iran and North Korea have never quite gotten.

Instead it prefers its conflicts to be handled cold-war style; propping up nations that oppose US interests in regions where their own interest is centered, such as Africa and Asia, since doing so results in any US involvement in those regions of interest to be hindered, or otherwise diverts US attention away from Chinese interests. It doesn't need to waste all of its money on an overblown military because unlike the US it isn't overextending its reach into areas that are hotly contested; it's surging into newly-opened markets by letting everyone else do the hard work for them and then simply stepping in with money and investments and developing them to their own goals, by using the money that would otherwise go to said military for these tasks and for developing their own economy. They're working smart, not hard, and that makes them dangerous to any other nation, not now, but in the near future.

Make no mistake. There will come a time, very soon I suspect, where the Chinese culture shall become the dominant one...complete with its own stiflings of personal freedoms and expressions. We're already seeing it happen in little spots here and there, such as Google's policies ever since their attempt to get into the Chinese market.

Enjoy Pax Americana while it lasts. We may find ourselves wishing it would have lasted longer...or we may find ourselves wondering why we ever wanted it to continue at all.
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#8
RE: Are the USA and China "peace-loving nations"?
(January 27, 2013 at 7:58 pm)Shell B Wrote: Yes, it is okay to have your opinion. I don't even necessarily disagree with all of it. However, the premise is that some people think they are peace-loving nations. Since you have no reason for making this statement, the entire thing falls apart.
The first line isn't aimed at anyone in particular, kind of the exact opposite to what you saw here. Call it a straw man if you want, but it's meant to be abstract. I like turning lines that other people use around and making them my own, so sue me! Big Grin
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50. -LINK

The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK


"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke
Reply
#9
RE: Are the USA and China "peace-loving nations"?
I'll sue you for twisting my words around!
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#10
RE: Are the USA and China "peace-loving nations"?
Ive never had any real contact with chinese people, no real bad contact anyway. Its weird but i dont know about where any of you people live, but in every city in england china town is pretty much an ok area to go, no one ever says oooo dont go round china town late at night, but theres loads of bad areas in my city with mainly white, black, or pakistani people in with violent crime, but i hardly ever notice it with the chinese people.


Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.

Impersonation is treason.





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