Physics, Hindu Cosmology, God and New Age Inspiration

[MindForgedManacle]

I agree that it could have, I never claimed otherwise. I said that Krauss calling that event the "universe coming from nothing" is misleading because it implies something else and he knows it is.

[tor]

I agree that it could have, I never claimed otherwise. I said that Krauss calling that event the "universe coming from nothing" is misleading because it implies something else and he knows it is.

What does it imply? There was no space, time and so on. Besids negative + positive energy = 0. It really does come from nothing^^

[GirlyMan]

Yeah, if that's thethread I remember I rebutted part of Lanza's nonsense (there was a lot of it...).


The main problem is this: Quantum mechanics is hard and we don't really understand what it "really" means. There are some physicists - thankfully a clear minority - who hold wacky views on it. Some of them think that consciousness causes the collapse of the wave-function. I'd say that generally - and Deepak Chopra is an excellent example of the following mindset - I think they're working backwards from a conclusion they want to be true: They want consciousness to be special in the world at a fundamental level, so they often close themselves off from criticism of this view, largely by projecting via the claim of a "physicalist dogma" against them.

I think the issue is the realization that the observer and the observed are inseparably intrinsically intertwined. The observed cannot be separated from the observer like by definition. Reality is just some sorta tenuous probabilistic shit floating around like some sorta hide and seek game until somebody peeks and then BAM! THERE IT IS!. But to paraphrase Feynman "So the fuck what? Shut up and calculate bitches." Metaphysical interpretations of this are ineffable, quixotic and masturbatory limited to hints from poets and prophets. (Some of them which are quite good.)

I just finished this course at coursera which was titled "Unpredictable? Randomness, Chance and Free Will" but which should've been titled "An Information Theoretic Introduction to Quantum Physics" 'cause the only "free will" shit was 10 minutes describing Libet's experiment. Nonetheless, the course was very good. Who knew randomness was such complicated shit? These are the 2 slides I'm keeping from the course.

[Mudhammam]

Read this great quote a few moments ago in the book I'm currently reading. The quote is by Harold J. Morowitz:

"First, the human mind, including consciousness and reflective thought, can be explained by activities of the central nervous system, which, in turn, can be reduced to the biological structure and function of that physiological system. Second, biological phenomena at all levels can be totally understood in terms of atomic physics, that is, through the action and interaction of the component atoms of carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, and so forth. Third and last, atomic physics, which is now understood most fully by means of quantum mechanics, must be formulated with the mind as a primitive component of the system... We have thus, in separate steps, gone around an epistemology circle..."

Try to understand how that works... >_<

[GirlyMan]

Read this great quote a few moments ago in the book I'm currently reading. The quote is by Harold J. Morowitz:

"First, the human mind, including consciousness and reflective thought, can be explained by activities of the central nervous system, which, in turn, can be reduced to the biological structure and function of that ...

THE human mind can be explained in those terms, but my particular one can't because "I" am nothing more than an emergent property of an incredibly complex running program constantly changing state. I'm thinking complexity and unexpected emergent properties go hand in hand. ... And shit.

[Mudhammam]

Read this great quote a few moments ago in the book I'm currently reading. The quote is by Harold J. Morowitz:

"First, the human mind, including consciousness and reflective thought, can be explained by activities of the central nervous system, which, in turn, can be reduced to the biological structure and function of that ...

THE human mind can be explained in those terms, but mine can't because "I" am nothing more than an emergent property of an incredibly complex running program constantly changing state. I'm thinking complexity and unexpected emergent properties go hand in hand. ... And shit.

Just curious, how do you define "emergent property" Whenever I hear that term I think of this comic:

[GirlyMan]

THE human mind can be explained in those terms, but mine can't because "I" am nothing more than an emergent property of an incredibly complex running program constantly changing state. I'm thinking complexity and unexpected emergent properties go hand in hand. ... And shit.

Just curious, how do you define "emergent property" Whenever I hear that term I think of this comic:

Behavior which could not have been reasonably anticipated from an examination and analysis of the combination of the individual parts.

[Mudhammam]

Just curious, how do you define "emergent property" Whenever I hear that term I think of this comic:

Behavior which could not have been reasonably anticipated from an examination of the combination of the individual parts.

It's kind of presumptuous to apply that to consciousness, isn't it? Who's to say that if a complete network of neural activity was sufficiently analyzed and understood, consciousness couldn't be "easily" replicated?

[GirlyMan]

Behavior which could not have been reasonably anticipated from an examination of the combination of the individual parts.

It's kind of presumptuous to apply that to consciousness, isn't it? Who's to say that if a complete network of neural activity was sufficiently analyzed and understood, consciousness couldn't be "easily" replicated?

Fuck dude, that's what I just said. And presumptuous? No. I'm suggesting a threshold degree of complexity after which any system will exhibit emergent properties.

[Mudhammam]

It's kind of presumptuous to apply that to consciousness, isn't it? Who's to say that if a complete network of neural activity was sufficiently analyzed and understood, consciousness couldn't be "easily" replicated?

Fuck dude, that's what I just said. And presumptuous? No. I'm suggesting a threshold degree of complexity after which any system will exhibit emergent properties.

Oh okay. I just think "emergent properties" causes more confusion than clarity.. but you mean by it something like a spandrel?