Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 29, 2024, 4:05 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
For People Who Think There Was No Historical Jesus
#21
RE: For People Who Think There Was No Historical Jesus
Or, this shit was cobbled together in the period AFTER Augustus/Tiberius when things had definitely started to change. The Romans were not innocent in this. Some of the procurators definitely provoked the Jews and the repeated Roman installations of Herod Agrippa and Herod Agrippa II as kings were obviously not lost on them, either.

But in the period of time that the fabricators of the holy horseshit sought to set their story, the Jews were hardly being oppressed. ( This realization, btw, was what set my feet firmly on the road to atheism. If they could lie about that, they could lie about anything.)
Reply
#22
RE: For People Who Think There Was No Historical Jesus
(February 11, 2013 at 12:28 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: One question I always have in discussions like this is:

What do you mean by "historical Jesus" if you want to throw out all the miracles, divinity and other supernatural elements?

In this case just some man who was regarded as a Messiah by a few people in Judea. I don't find the idea of somebody starting a new Messianic movement impossible because of all the new religions which started up last century and this century. Most are offshoots of existing religions but some are New Age, Neo Pagan and UFO cults.

List Of New Religious Movements

In this post I reported finding a new cult whose leaders claim to be Jesus and Mary Magdalene reincarnated and it appears they've got followers.

http://atheistforums.org/thread-17095-po...#pid399124
Badger Badger Badger Badger Where are the snake and mushroom smilies?
Reply
#23
RE: For People Who Think There Was No Historical Jesus
Jesus probably didn't plan on creating a new religion, he seemed to believe he was living in the end times and that the world was about to come to an end.
Reply
#24
RE: For People Who Think There Was No Historical Jesus
Quote:In this case just some man who was regarded as a Messiah by a few people in Judea.

Ah, yes...the funniest bit of a very funny film.



Reply
#25
RE: For People Who Think There Was No Historical Jesus
(February 11, 2013 at 12:58 pm)Minimalist Wrote: But in the period of time that the fabricators of the holy horseshit sought to set their story, the Jews were hardly being oppressed. ( This realization, btw, was what set my feet firmly on the road to atheism. If they could lie about that, they could lie about anything.)

I didn't mean to hit any hot buttons by my use of the word. Hope you understand what I was trying to say earlier about their motives to look for their "promised kingdom" in a "higher world" and hence how JC was born in their imaginations.

Quote:Jesus probably didn't plan on creating a new religion, he seemed to believe he was living in the end times and that the world was about to come to an end.

End-timers and doom-criers abounded at that time and Yeshua was a common name. A mortal JC could have been almost anybody. Maybe there were several.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
...      -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
...       -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
Reply
#26
RE: For People Who Think There Was No Historical Jesus
(February 11, 2013 at 1:16 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: End-timers and doom-criers abounded at that time and Yeshua was a common name. A mortal JC could have been almost anybody. Maybe there were several.

The Essenes the Jewish sect who wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls were around at this time and they like Jesus/Yeshua had this notion of the end of times being imanent. So I can easily see a historical figure of a wandering heretical first century Rabbi coming from this background.
Reply
#27
RE: For People Who Think There Was No Historical Jesus
Quote:The Essenes the Jewish sect who wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls

That idea has taken a lot of hits lately.

http://www.thenazareneway.com/dds_not_essene_text.htm

Quote:In view of this and other rising opposition to this theory, it can no longer be stated with certitude that the authors of the Dead Sea Scrolls were Essenes. This is now the most prevalent view among scholars (Golb 1995; Hirschfeld 2004; Magen and Peleg 2006; cf. Abegg et al 2002).
Reply
#28
RE: For People Who Think There Was No Historical Jesus
(February 11, 2013 at 1:16 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: I didn't mean to hit any hot buttons by my use of the word. Hope you understand what I was trying to say earlier about their motives to look for their "promised kingdom" in a "higher world" and hence how JC was born in their imaginations.

End-timers and doom-criers abounded at that time and Yeshua was a common name. A mortal JC could have been almost anybody. Maybe there were several.

So let's take this as being the basis for your urban legend idea. Back to Tacitus -

Quote:Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome,

Some possibilities here -

1: Could Tacitus have believed in the urban legend of someone being executed during the time when Pilate was prefect of Judea? Was there no way of checking if someone called Jeshua had been executed?

2: Is it possible that somebody called Jeshua had been executed and Tacitus assumed it was the person the Christians were talking about even though it wasn't? After all, Jeshua was a very common name at the time.

3: The urban legend Messiah didn't acquire a name and background until later. Tacitus had no way of checking records for somebody who was just referred to as Christus.

I think we can safely say that most people in Judea didn't believe in the urban legend because it didn't really take off as a religion until somebody like Paul decided to do his own thing.
Badger Badger Badger Badger Where are the snake and mushroom smilies?
Reply
#29
RE: For People Who Think There Was No Historical Jesus
(February 11, 2013 at 12:43 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Were they? Because in the reigns of Augustus and Tiberius the Jews had it pretty good. They were exempt from certain taxes and military obligations. When the Jews petitioned Augustus to remove Archelaus and become a Roman Prefecture ( 6 AD) Augustus agreed. The country was prospering as part of the empire and after Herod built Caesarea they were part of the commercial links to the rest of the empire. They had a measure of home rule as the Prefect made his headquarters in Caesarea and the high priest and sanheddrin were allowed to handle local matters in Jerusalem. Finally when large scale rioting broke out in Alexandria it was because the Greco-Roman citizens were angry at the Jews' special treatment.

Just where was all this "oppression?"

Didn't stop another group of ingrates railing against the empire they lived under in 1776. those colonists were some of the most lightly taxed people in the empire.



You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.

Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.




 








Reply
#30
RE: For People Who Think There Was No Historical Jesus
Tacitus, Tacitus, Tacitus...... I get so tired of people dredging up fucking Tacitus.

I didn't feel like typing this out again but here I reply to a question about why I "distrust" the Tacitus reference.

http://www.ishtarsgate.com/forum/showthr...#post21208

(Ishtar's a good kid. She won't mind if people sneak over to read.)
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  The People of Light vs The People of Darkness Leonardo17 2 523 October 27, 2023 at 7:55 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  There will be fewer "cousin" stories in the future, I think. Gawdzilla Sama 0 495 December 15, 2020 at 10:52 am
Last Post: Gawdzilla Sama
  Caesar's Messiah by Joseph Atwill - what do people think Send4Seneca 28 2455 August 24, 2019 at 5:12 pm
Last Post: ronedee
  What do moderates think Jesus died for? Der/die AtheistIn 119 10681 January 16, 2019 at 2:38 pm
Last Post: Acrobat
  Why don't we have people named Jesus? Alexmahone 28 5309 April 5, 2018 at 8:17 pm
Last Post: Jenny A
Question Why do you people say there is no evidence,when you can't be bothered to look for it? Jaguar 74 20087 November 5, 2017 at 7:17 pm
Last Post: GUBU
  Do you think Epistle of James was written by "James Brother of Jesus" Rolandson 13 2145 December 31, 2016 at 9:39 pm
Last Post: robvalue
  Is people being violent until they find Jesus a common occurance? ReptilianPeon 27 5117 November 12, 2015 at 2:22 pm
Last Post: dyresand
  The Historical Reliability of the New Testament Randy Carson 706 105905 June 9, 2015 at 12:04 pm
Last Post: downbeatplumb
Question Why did God let people think demons cause epilepsy? Razzle 34 7605 May 22, 2015 at 9:03 am
Last Post: Drich



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)