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[ARCHIVED] - The attributes of the Christian God exhibit logical contradictions.
#11
RE: The attributes of the Christian God exhibit logical contradictions.
First, I am not assuming that peer-reviewed journals are absolutely correct, despite your unfounded remark. Rather, I am concluding (which is very different from assuming) that peer-reviewed articles are written by scholars qualified in the field that our discussion involves, then edited and authorized for publication by likewise qualified scholars; i.e., highly disciplined results from people who have studied first-order philosophy at levels neither you or I have. When I want to learn about P, I give my attention to those who have deeply studied and know something about P. I do not simply make something up about P and pretend that my ignorance is more trustworthy than their expert conclusions. Perhaps you do, and that's your choice. But it does make me wonder why you are in school; i.e., of what value is education if ignorance is more trustworthy?

Second, how do you justify correctness for yourself? I mean, if you develop some notion about the Loaded Question fallacy from whole cloth, while ignoring qualified experts on the subject so as not to "argue from establishment," then how do you go about justifying correctness? What is the criteria? Is your forgone conclusion the criteria for justifying the correctness of your forgone conclusion? Do you not see the vicious circularity of that? And yet that must be what you have done, for if you had justified the correctness of your view on relevant and qualified information, you would have cited that support so your opponent and those following this debate could likewise justify its correctness.

Third, I have indeed refuted your arguments in a reasonable way, vis-à-vis the Loaded Question fallacy—in my Rebuttal Against Responses. In the second paragraph I stated specifically which arguments of yours were incorrect and explained why. You said the rock-too-heavy question asks about God's ability to create and that doing so doesn't assume anything. I refuted both these points by showing that (i) the question is still 'loaded' with more than one question and (ii) that it's the hidden or unasked question that is committing the fallacy (not the one asking about God's ability to create). After having stated my case, I went on to actually make my case in the third, fourth, and fifth paragraphs, establishing by reasoned arguments both those points (with additional arguments in Msg. #9).

So telling me that I have not refuted your arguments in any reasonable way is highly disingenuous, underscored by your lack of interacting directly with those points I had raised. That is why I requested that you cite, with a quotation, the part that you think is incorrect, explain how it is incorrect, and support your counter-arguments (and, please, with something a little more rationally credible than pizza). For example, you already said the rock-too-heavy question is not 'loaded' with more than one question, which I have directly responded to. If you think there is something amiss with my response, please interact directly with it, instead of ignoring it and merely repeating your original position.
Man is a rational animal who always loses his temper when
called upon to act in accordance with the dictates of reason.
(Oscar Wilde)
#12
RE: The attributes of the Christian God exhibit logical contradictions.
Quote provided for full context. Please forgive the delay, I had no intention of taking this long to make up my mind Undecided

Anyway, this is my last post in this thread. The bold below explains:

Saerules in PM to Arcanus Wrote:Saerules Wrote:
I can't make myself break my promise Undecided I've been trying to steel myself, and read your post... but I can't do it Undecided

I'm sure you understand...? I want to continue the debate... however I cannot toss my promise aside Undecided I think that's a good thing in a way... because a year ago I wouldn't have blinked at my promises...

Anyway, I would like to formally inform people that I'm I'm not carrying on (although I would like to ) because of a promise made shortly after my last post in the subject... How would you recommend I do so?

It's a difficult compromise for me... I want to continue the debate... but a also want to keep my promise... and so I've chosen to keep my promise and also inform people that I'm not responding further because of a promise made. I'm informing them (and you), because I think I owe it to you guys to do so... Smile

But again, input from you would be appreciated. Smile
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
#13
RE: The attributes of the Christian God exhibit logical contradictions.
And with that, the debate at last comes to a close.

Nobody ever wins or loses in formal debates. Winners and losers are declared in subsequent conversations, of course, but it is no surprise that people's opinions about the debate seem to coincide with the prejudices they had before the debate. So there are no real winners or losers; just support from each side's fan club, which really amounts to only so much noise. While I would not begrudge anyone from throwing their support behind the participant who argued for what resembles their side on the issue, I would encourage people to elevate their thinking beyond mere applause. This was not simply a writing exercise; speaking for myself, an authentic and genuine exchange of ideas was attempted here. Both of us agreed to debate and invested it with real intellectual capital because we thought the perspective we each had to share was worthy of consideration. Disregarding how either Saerules or myself fared in the debate, I want people to carefully and thoughtfully digest the points that were made and how they looked after the opposing arguments were in. If you can come away from this debate having changed your mind about something, or even just having learned something new, then the real winner of the debate was you.

I want to offer my appreciation and thanks to Saerules for the investment she made in this debate (and at a bit of a personal cost, it seems). Although it was short-lived, I nevertheless really enjoyed the exchange. I only wish her experience had been more positive and enjoyable, instead of stressful and tedious. And thank you, Adrian, for this opportunity. I guess the thread can be closed now.
Man is a rational animal who always loses his temper when
called upon to act in accordance with the dictates of reason.
(Oscar Wilde)



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