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RE: Can you ever believe that there is no God
April 23, 2013 at 7:32 pm
I think Dawud can't read...
(April 23, 2013 at 6:34 pm)Dawud Wrote: Please read again to understand my question pocaracas.
It is about if knowledge that there is no such thing as God can lead to someone to do something... It is about belief!
Knowledge and belief .... meh, you opened another thread on those two... instead of using the search function and realizing it's been done to death!
You can have no knowledge about god, the entity, because it seems to be hiding from our scrutiny.
Given this, I cannot believe you when you claim that god is this or that, or that it does this or that. I have no way to verify it, nor do you... how can you distinguish that from "it's all in your head"?
You can't.
So, I turn your question around: does your behavior change when you become a believer in the existence of a deity (aka, a theist)?
If you're simply deist, probably not.
If you end up following some preexisting religion, probably yes...
The default position of the human being is atheist, provided no one tells me about a god, I never acquire that concept and remain atheist.
When someone provides me with the concept of a god, I can either accept it or not, usually, based on the degree of trust I hold towards the person which provided me with this new concept.
If you're religious and manage to go back to atheist, you then change your behavior back to the default, no religious rules to uphold.
Would you kill for that notion of a non-existing entity?
Perhaps, if a particular theist badgered me too much, threatened my physical integrity, or my family's.... but then, the kill wouldn't have been for atheism, but for peace...
Apart from this particular case of idiocy from theists, I can't imagine how such a desire to kill another human being would stem from the fact that you're do not accept the claim that a god exists.... whatever a god is... by the way, you haven't defined what you understand as god yet, have you?
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RE: Can you ever believe that there is no God
April 23, 2013 at 7:32 pm
(April 23, 2013 at 7:30 pm)Dawud Wrote: I get it!
Clearly not.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Can you ever believe that there is no God
April 23, 2013 at 7:42 pm
God does not exist. You do not have any proof. Earth Quakes are explained with the theory of tectonic plates.
If god exist, and he/she did all this crazy stuff in the pass! Why has he/she not made an appearance in the same fashion?
I have yet to see raining frogs! I want some raining frogs!
Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan
Professional Watcher of The Daily Show and The Colbert Report!
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RE: Can you ever believe that there is no God
April 23, 2013 at 7:42 pm
The philosophical default is to not claim k owl edge about God.
Psychologically the intuitive habit for humans is to assume that there is an intelligent agent behind our ordered universe...
I'm not saying its rationally true but atheist psychologists agree that it seems a pretty human habit to believe in an intelligent creator...
If any of you have access to journal articles through a higher education institution then let me know and I'll send you links!!
Kudos given by (1): Dawud
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RE: Can you ever believe that there is no God
April 23, 2013 at 7:50 pm
(This post was last modified: April 23, 2013 at 7:52 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
What people believe =/=what is - not even you would argue this (as you mentioned), so that last post was what, precisely?
"Like you know, not like it means anything, but uh, people totally prefer coke to pepsi"-the actor said with a coke in his hand.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Can you ever believe that there is no God
April 23, 2013 at 7:59 pm
(This post was last modified: April 23, 2013 at 8:01 pm by Simon Moon.)
(April 23, 2013 at 7:42 pm)Dawud Wrote: The philosophical default is to not claim k owl edge about God.
The philosophical default is to not claim knowledge about the existence of a god.
Quote:Psychologically the intuitive habit for humans is to assume that there is an intelligent agent behind our ordered universe...
At one time it was the intuitive habit for most humans to assume that the earth was flat, that diseases were due toy supernatural causes, the earth was the center of the universe, etc.
How did that intuitive habit turn out?
What intuitively feels right does not necessarily equate to what is actually true.
Intuition is a great starting point to further study a proposition. it is not the end of the study.
Quote:I'm not saying its rationally true but atheist psychologists agree that it seems a pretty human habit to believe in an intelligent creator...
This might be true. Says nothing about the truth of the existence of an intelligent creator.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Can you ever believe that there is no God
April 23, 2013 at 8:02 pm
No matter if your god exists or not, I wouldn't worship him.
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RE: Can you ever believe that there is no God
April 23, 2013 at 8:06 pm
(April 23, 2013 at 7:42 pm)Dawud Wrote: I'm not saying its rationally true but atheist psychologists agree that it seems a pretty human habit to believe in an intelligent creator...
Bullshit! Produce the survey or other evidence upon which that statement is based?
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RE: Can you ever believe that there is no God
April 23, 2013 at 8:06 pm
(This post was last modified: April 23, 2013 at 8:08 pm by Simon Moon.)
(April 23, 2013 at 7:30 pm)Dawud Wrote: Apophena's lovely post is great and I agree that they weren't promoting atheism for atheism's sake - I never thought that.
It's just that the spreading if it for the aim for the good of society in such a violent way is proof that people can do bad things cos they think spreading atheism is important. I don't think Stalins slaughter of the religious was representative of atheists hence it is not a tu quoque upon atheism: Im not trying to disprove atheism - just prove what you have said "communists were reacting to what they perceived to be a threat to the good of society, namely religion." In his attack on religion he attacked the belief in God as a bad thing.
I don't think he was just some evangelical atheist - dont worry.
Read what I say - bit what you think I'll say.
I just try to open your mind to the possibility that someone might do something bad because they want to spread atheism - but still you'll deny this:
I get it!
No, you don't get it. And I know longer have any hope that you will.
Stalin wasn't trying to spread atheism, he was trying to spread Communism.
He was replacing the bad dogma of an infallible 'god' with the bad dogma of the infallible 'State'.
You actually didn't understand Apophena's post one bit.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Can you ever believe that there is no God
April 23, 2013 at 8:09 pm
(April 23, 2013 at 7:42 pm)Dawud Wrote: The philosophical default is to not claim k owl edge about God.
Psychologically the intuitive habit for humans is to assume that there is an intelligent agent behind our ordered universe...
I'm not saying its rationally true but atheist psychologists agree that it seems a pretty human habit to believe in an intelligent creator...
If any of you have access to journal articles through a higher education institution then let me know and I'll send you links!!
What? I have never believed in any creator intelligent or not! Intelligent Creator are religious people trying to get their faith into science curriculum in schools.
If you look at human history, the human psychic has got it wrong numerous times.
Knowledge =/= Belief! Stop trying to lump them together.
Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan
Professional Watcher of The Daily Show and The Colbert Report!
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