Religion trumps fact once again

[A_Nony_Mouse]

Well known historical fact, that there was no such exile and the Palestinians were at one time Judeans, is reduced to theory, too hot to handle theory, because of zionist propaganda.

BBC pulls documentary claiming story of Jewish exodus from Jerusalem is a 'myth’

By JTA | May.02, 2013 | 2:01 PM | 22

An Israeli-born filmmaker is slamming the British Broadcasting Corp. for pulling his documentary on the Jewish exodus from Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

Ilan Ziv said in a blog post on April 27 that the BBC exhibited "a mixture of incompetence, political naivete, conscious or subconscious political pressure and ultimately, I believe, a lack of courage of broadcasters when they are faced with the complexity of the Middle East issue and the intense emotions, fears and aggression it generates."

At issue is the documentary “Exile: A Myth Unearthed,” which theorizes that many Jews did not leave Jerusalem after the destruction of the Temple, and that many modern-day Palestinians may be in part descended from those Jews. The BBC had been scheduled to show the documentary, cut and renamed "Jerusalem: an Archaeological Mystery Story," late last week before it was taken off the schedule at the last minute.

The film was screened for a week at the Jewish Film Festival in Toronto. It was shown on Canadian TV and is scheduled to be shown in France and Switzerland.

The BBC told The Guardian that it dropped the film because it did "not fit editorially" with the tone of the season, which has a theme exploring the history of archaeology.

According to the watchdog group HonestReporting, critics of the decision to drop the film have accused the BBC of succumbing to “unnamed pressure groups,” which HonestReporting says is a reference to “Jews” or “Zionists.”

Simon Plosker of HonestReporting wrote in his blog on the group's website that the BBC may have been "more concerned at upsetting anti-Israel elements by showing a film with such a heavy concentration on Jewish history in the Land of Israel."

Meanwhile, the BBC named Danny Cohen, who attended a Jewish day school in London, as its director of television. Cohen, 39, previously served as controller of the BBC 1 channel, where he oversaw its London Olympics coverage last year.

In his new position, the Oxford graduate will oversee the four main BBC channels, along with BBC Films and the BBC archive. He reportedly is a front-runner for the job of director-general of the broadcaster when the position becomes available.

Supporters of Israel and the Palestinians have roundly criticized BBC coverage of the Middle East.

[Minimalist]

I do have to see this film. I'm not sure where Ziv is coming from. As I recall there was no diaspora in the wake of the Great Revolt as opposed to the end of the bar Kochba revolt. In 70 the Romans massacred the defenders of Jerusalem and the Tenth Legion relocated its permanent base to the remains of the city but Jews were not barred from Judaea as they were after the bar Kochba revolt ended.

By this time in history there were large Jewish enclaves in Alexandria and Babylon anyway.

Aside from the fact that he may be asserting something which did not happen what is the big controversy?

[Angrboda]

I do have to see this film. I'm not sure where Ziv is coming from. As I recall there was no diaspora in the wake of the Great Revolt as opposed to the end of the bar Kochba revolt. In 70 the Romans massacred the defenders of Jerusalem and the Tenth Legion relocated its permanent base to the remains of the city but Jews were not barred from Judaea as they were after the bar Kochba revolt ended.

By this time in history there were large Jewish enclaves in Alexandria and Babylon anyway.

Aside from the fact that he may be asserting something which did not happen what is the big controversy?

It's a $15 download. http://www.nfb.ca/film/exile_a_myth_unearthed/download/

It appears to be on google play, too. ($10) https://play.google.com/store/movies/det...JMA0&hl=en

And youtube, also $10. https://www.youtube.com/movie/exile-a-myth-unearthed

Film review: http://povmagazine.com/blog/view/review-...-unearthed

Unfortunately, Exile doesn’t come close to answering the questions it poses. Situating part of the film in the locale where Sepphoris, the home of the Virgin Mary’s parents once dwelled, hardly makes the point that Jews stayed on in Galilee after 70 AD. Unlike the vast majority of towns in ancient Judea, Sepphoris’ citizens didn’t participate in the rebellion and so were never exiled by the Romans—-if such orders ever did take place. It makes sense that Jewish ruins from the period after 70 AD would be found in Sepphoris.

Similarly, the doc unquestioningly uses Josephus, the Roman historian, as a source for much of their information on the period of the Jewish revolt and purported exile. While that makes sense—Josephus’ accounts are the best known resources on the “Jewish Wars”—-it should have been made clearer that many scholars regard this classical historian with a great deal of suspicion. After all, he did join the Romans after losing major battles during the Wars, and may be considered a traitor to the Jewish cause.

In the end, the filmmakers involved in Exile don’t really prove anything. They do succeed in raising another fascinating question: if the Jews really didn’t leave in 70 AD, what became of them 600 years later, after the rise of Mohammedanism? Did they become the Palestinians?

[A_Nony_Mouse]

I do have to see this film. I'm not sure where Ziv is coming from. As I recall there was no diaspora in the wake of the Great Revolt as opposed to the end of the bar Kochba revolt. In 70 the Romans massacred the defenders of Jerusalem and the Tenth Legion relocated its permanent base to the remains of the city but Jews were not barred from Judaea as they were after the bar Kochba revolt ended.

By this time in history there were large Jewish enclaves in Alexandria and Babylon anyway.

Aside from the fact that he may be asserting something which did not happen what is the big controversy?

It's a $15 download. http://www.nfb.ca/film/exile_a_myth_unearthed/download/

It appears to be on google play, too. ($10) https://play.google.com/store/movies/det...JMA0&hl=en

And youtube, also $10. https://www.youtube.com/movie/exile-a-myth-unearthed

Film review: http://povmagazine.com/blog/view/review-...-unearthed

Unfortunately, Exile doesn’t come close to answering the questions it poses. Situating part of the film in the locale where Sepphoris, the home of the Virgin Mary’s parents once dwelled, hardly makes the point that Jews stayed on in Galilee after 70 AD. Unlike the vast majority of towns in ancient Judea, Sepphoris’ citizens didn’t participate in the rebellion and so were never exiled by the Romans—-if such orders ever did take place. It makes sense that Jewish ruins from the period after 70 AD would be found in Sepphoris.

This clown is not qualified to review the subject. Jews was identical with Judeans. Only people from Judea were called Jews. People from the Galilee were called Galileans. That statement is like saying Ohioans stayed in Kentucky without being called Kentuckians in the first place.

There was never any expulsion from Judea at any time. ALL the surviving documents refer only to exile from Jerusalem not from Judea. Justin even "reverses" the expulsion order by proclaiming Jews can return to Jerusalem not to Judea.

Similarly, the doc unquestioningly uses Josephus, the Roman historian, as a source for much of their information on the period of the Jewish revolt and purported exile. While that makes sense—Josephus’ accounts are the best known resources on the “Jewish Wars”—-it should have been made clearer that many scholars regard this classical historian with a great deal of suspicion. After all, he did join the Romans after losing major battles during the Wars, and may be considered a traitor to the Jewish cause.

Josephus is not just the best known source. He is also the only source. Any "scholar" who makes up crap isn't. As he is the only source anything he did not write is total invention. Citing ancient invention is invention by proxy and has no more merit than original invention.

In the end, the filmmakers involved in Exile don’t really prove anything. They do succeed in raising another fascinating question: if the Jews really didn’t leave in 70 AD, what became of them 600 years later, after the rise of Mohammedanism? Did they become the Palestinians?

There is nothing to prove. There no evidence of an exile from Judea. Read The Invention of the Jewish People. There was no Diaspora. It was all conversion. Christians did not invent conversion, Judeans did.

They were ALWAYS Palestinians as so far as we know that was always the name of the geographic region. That the Judeans converted to both Christianity and Islam was never in question until the zionists created there own mythology. David Ben-Gurion has been quoted as saying it in private even though he whined about expulsion in public.

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I do have to see this film. I'm not sure where Ziv is coming from. As I recall there was no diaspora in the wake of the Great Revolt as opposed to the end of the bar Kochba revolt. In 70 the Romans massacred the defenders of Jerusalem and the Tenth Legion relocated its permanent base to the remains of the city but Jews were not barred from Judaea as they were after the bar Kochba revolt ended.

Barred from Jerusalem not Judea.

In fact barred from being in sight of Jerusalem possibly as some famous Jew from the 2nd c. or so mentions sneaking close enough to see Jerusalem in the distance. Meaning if Judeans lived just outside the walls they could sneak in so not is sight of prevented that.

[Gabriel Syme]

Well known historical fact, that there was no such exile and the Palestinians were at one time Judeans, is reduced to theory, too hot to handle theory, because of zionist propaganda.

How is it a "well known historical fact" that a jewish exodus didnt take place?

That obviously isnt the case, given then you claim its controversial for the documentary to state this. If it was well known, it wouldnt be controversial, would it?

The BBC state that it was an editorial decision, based on their general season of archeology. There is no proof it was done out of any form of religious pressure (is there?).

I wouldnt put too much stock in things saying there either was, or was not, an exodus.

Its like the Turin Shroud - one year the scientists say could be real, the next year they say its probably fake. And so on and so forth. This is just an easy way for scientists to get their name in the paper.

[A_Nony_Mouse]

Well known historical fact, that there was no such exile and the Palestinians were at one time Judeans, is reduced to theory, too hot to handle theory, because of zionist propaganda.

How is it a "well known historical fact" that a jewish exodus didnt take place?

That obviously isnt the case, given then you claim its controversial for the documentary to state this. If it was well known, it wouldnt be controversial, would it?

That facts are well known in real history and then changed in the popular mind over time by politics is a distinction I could have carefully made with maybe three times more words.

The BBC state that it was an editorial decision, based on their general season of archeology. There is no proof it was done out of any form of religious pressure (is there?).

It has been a long time since the Beeb admitted religious pressure and then if was from the Jewish Board of Deputies again. The admission came to be ritually condemned (I mean that term literally) as a claim there was a powerful jewish conspiracy behind the scenes. The proper answer should have been, The BoD is not behind the scenes and then quote from the reasons to send money given in their fund raising letters.

I wouldnt put too much stock in things saying there either was, or was not, an exodus.

I would look for the evidence of a near total depopulation of bibleland and the influx of an entirely new population in only a few years. It is difficult to explain how 1) this could have escaped comment and notice and 2) left no evidence of any discontinuity of any kind.

Its like the Turin Shroud - one year the scientists say could be real, the next year they say its probably fake. And so on and so forth. This is just an easy way for scientists to get their name in the paper.

EVERY year the scientists say it is a fake. The real professional papers are published by the real scientists. The other kind get their names in the newspapers but never publish properly.