Clarification and Learning

[Arellius]

I have some questions, theories and other subjects I have on my mind that I'd be more than happy to have clarified. I think Theists are going to have a hard time answering it for me since, well, I'm kind of an Anti Theist in the making. I'm for Atheism and Anti Theism. No, I am not in doubt of faith nor do I think there is a divine being in the clouds telling me how to live and planning the rest of my life. I'm 85-15 on free will so I'll always be open to new suggestions.

I can't stand the easy answers anymore;

- ''It's because God wanted it that way.''
- ''This is what God said.''
- ''God told me so.''
- ''It's God's will.''

And many other easy answers, I need real clarification. If 'God told you so' then I would like to know...
a) What does his voice sound like to you ? b) What were his exact words ? Not from the Bible, but to you directly.

Things like this:

Noah would have had 99% more animals on his ark than exists today. So the largest zoo on earth is 130 acres and only holds 1% of species alive today. 12,000 animals with almost 1000 different species. So just a little rough math, that would mean Noah would need an ark with roughly 750 thousand acre capacity. I have to say 1) that is on the low side of the scale. 2) Do you want to believe a story like this so terribly bad you are willing to destroy your logic, reason, and integrity to uphold an ancient myth?

I think this is a pretty good point I read on a Facebook post once. I didn't believe the mystical side of the Bible even before I read this, but these kind of points prove even more to me that it was, baloney. It even said that Noah was 500 years old when he started building it and 600 years old when he finished/entered it.

a) How would people know he was 500 years old? Did people live to that age back then? b) How did people come by the story? Because someone wrote it in the Bible who heard it from someone else? Or better yet, God told them. [sigh] c) Did God give Noah the power to live till 600 years old or older? If so, how did he give him these powers?

One of my own theories: We don't need religion anymore.

In future, I don't think we need religion anymore. We lived by these morals for a long, long time and we don't need a voice in our heads to tell us right from wrong. When I have kids, I can teach them what is right and wrong without referring to religion. I grew up without religion and I don't find murder any less horrifying as any other Christian would. I was taught that steeling is wrong without hearing along side the lesson; ''Because God said so.'' And since then, I know steeling is wrong and it feels bad when I do it. Sure I took something without permission before, and I felt guilty. Not an inexplicable feeling where a light shone on me and a voice told me to feel bad.

If we don't need religion, where would peace come from? I believe in humans, my fellow man, because I can trust them much more than I can trust any God. I can speak to humans, feel them, listen to them and (even non religious people) give me really good advice, either from experience or something they read and saw somewhere else. Not necessarily from a religious/divine source.

That was all for know, let me know what you think and share your insight if you will I'm open to all suggestions and other theories, just not so much the easy answers/weak arguments.

[The Grand Nudger]

Probably the wrong forum header for this, maybe ask the mods to swing a move?

[Faith No More]

Done.

[ideologue08]

Done.

Good boy, a little quicker next time though.

[Faith No More]

Good boy, a little quicker next time though.

[ideologue08]

Hahaha good one.

[Arellius]

My bad, new here

[InevitableCheese]

As a former Christian, I've seen three theories:

1) The story is allegorical.

2) Global Flood View: "A straightforward reading of our English text gives the impression that the flood covered the entire planet. At its peak the floodwater are said to have covered the highest mountains to a depth of 15 cubits (22.5 feet). After 150 days the waters began to subside. Shortly thereafter the ark came to rest in the mountains of Aratat; and eventually, a year after the flood began, the earth was dry, and the occupants left the ark." (Understanding Creation: A Biblical and Scientific Overview, pg 156)

3) Local Flood View: "Advocates for local flood cautiously point out that the Hebrew text is not as unequivocal as our English Bible. Because the Hebrew language has relatively few words, words commonly have multiple meanings. The Hebrew phrase used for 'entire earth' is kol erets, which is used 205 times in the Old Testament. At least 80% of the time, kol erets refers to merely a local region, not the whole earth." (Understanding Creation, pg 156-157) It continues to say that only Mesopatamia flooded, since Moses' view of the earth was limited to the Middle East, not including America, etc. So, the "entire earth" was the earth they knew at the time.

The age of OT people was explained as that after being expelled from the Garden of Eden, mankind years slowly dwindled over time from being immortal beings due to the effects of sin. Eventually, God put a limit of 130 years on mans life.

When things are tough to prove or believe, faith is normally invoked. I was always irked by how much of the texts had to be so drastically stretched and explained to justify the faith.

As to the "voice of God", they trust that God spoke to men in the past, and that those words are recorded in the Bible as revelation to mankind. Most people who claim voices of God, visions, and prophecies are typically exclaimed to be loony.

[Arellius]

Thanks for the explanation !

Theory #1 - I am more likely to consider believable. Figure of speech ? That's all right, but what is the message...? More in the sense of; How could it be interpreted into this time as a lesson ?

Theory #2 - How did Noah feed [take care of] ALL those animals for 150 days and a whole year ? I looked it up but doesn't say anywhere, do you know of any other theories on this ?

Theory #3 - So, the "entire earth" was the earth they knew at the time. That would make allot more sense! Haha. In my opinion, people back then were allot less aware of what the human mind was capable of (delusions/fantasy's/dreams/thoughts), so they might of exaggerated a tad.

When things are tough to prove or believe, faith is normally invoked. Yeah, such a typical argument. Whenever I hear this I sigh and roll my eyes, it just means ''I don't have an answer anymore.''

Thanks again

[InevitableCheese]

Theory #1 - I am more likely to consider believable. Figure of speech ? That's all right, but what is the message...? More in the sense of; How could it be interpreted into this time as a lesson ?

God's reasoning was that mankind was extremely evil, and doing evil things. So he flooded the earth, to destroy humanity. He spared Noah and his family, because God found him to be a righteous man. The lesson would be God's holiness.

Theory #2 - How did Noah feed [take care of] ALL those animals for 150 days and a whole year ? I looked it up but doesn't say anywhere, do you know of any other theories on this ?

http://www.gotquestions.org/Noahs-ark-animals.html

Here's a link to a website that a lot of Christians use for apologetics stuff. They answer tons of questions with their explanations. They also reference a book about the ark as well.

Theory #3 - So, the "entire earth" was the earth they knew at the time. That would make allot more sense! Haha. In my opinion, people back then were allot less aware of what the human mind was capable of (delusions/fantasy's/dreams/thoughts), so they might of exaggerated a tad.

I'd say it's more probable that the whole story is fake. Haha.