This Should Get Interesting....

[Minimalist]

One wonders why the fucking catholics never thought of that.



Or maybe they did?

[Jackalope]

One wonders why the fucking catholics never thought of that.



Or maybe they did?

It would appear that they're more concerned with protecting clergy than kids.

[Minimalist]

Uh-huh.

[ideologue08]

I'm skeptical... what if the scout leaders just want to bang the shit out of the young gay boys? They might be a target in any sexual assault.

Given the youth protection policies in place, it would be difficult. Any time adults interact with youth in BSA, there must be two adults present. Locally, that policy is taken very seriously.

There's something I don't understand though (and I'm talking about being openly homosexual in any "team" related activity), what is the fucking point? Nothing good is ever going to come out of it. I still remember how a teammate of mine came out as openly gay in our football team when I was younger...all that resulted was awkwardness in the changing room and far far more homophobic insults. What good is going to come out of being openly gay in situations like that? When you come out as gay, you're basically declaring that you are sexually attracted to guys, don't you see the awkwardness of being (partially) nude in front of such people? I mean girls and boys don't have the same changing room partly for that reason, am I wrong? Do gays have separate facilities in the army?

[Esquilax]

There's something I don't understand though (and I'm talking about being openly homosexual in any "team" related activity), what is the fucking point? Nothing good is ever going to come out of it. I still remember how a teammate of mine came out as openly gay in our football team when I was younger...all that resulted was awkwardness in the changing room and far far more homophobic insults. What good is going to come out of being openly gay in situations like that? When you come out as gay, you're basically declaring that you are sexually attracted to guys, don't you see the awkwardness of being (partially) nude in front of such people? I mean girls and boys don't have the same changing room partly for that reason, am I wrong? Do gays have separate facilities in the army?

Hello, openly bisexual guy here! It's actually a pretty easy question to answer; staying closeted only leads to the bigots thinking it's okay to be bigoted, either though a mentality of "oh, they must have something to hide, they think it's shameful too!" or through sheer exclusion. The "point" such as there is one, is to put a human face on homosexuality, and maybe, bit by bit, make the homophobes retreat, or actually change, once they see that the "queer menace" is actually just the guy down the road.

The good that comes out of it is normalizing a previously acceptable target; it's not so much "I'm a gay sportsman now," as it is "I play sports with your guys, and I am also gay, and there's nothing specifically wrong or weird about that."

I'd also suggest that you've got your thinking backwards on the whole issue of homophobic insults; the issue that needs to be changed isn't the existence of a gay person in your midst, but that there's an asshole in your midst who thinks it's okay to denigrate someone based on sexual preference. You wouldn't be accepting that shit if he were making fun of you for being heterosexual, does the equation really change that much when you're not a part of the group being made fun of.

Your comments about awkwardness and sexual attraction made me tilt my head quizzically too; you're aware, of course, that whether or not your gay team mate is out of the closet, he's still gay, right? He doesn't suddenly become straight when he's concealing his preference. The only thing that changes is that, if he's closeted, then he'll be doing any perving on you guys in secret, something I doubt would be any more comfortable for you. When you think about it, the issue was never that another man was attracted to you- if he was, he was before you knew about it too- but that you were made aware of the possibility, which only shows that despite whatever efforts you happen to be employing, you aren't quite there in the tolerance stakes yet.

We dude-lovers aren't irrepressible lust monsters, there's no threat of us coming onto you if you don't want it. We can- through great feats of will- control our wild hunger for dongs... and you know that, because I somehow doubt your gay team mate changed suddenly upon coming out, started walking around the locker room at half mast or anything.

Anyway, just like I wouldn't presume to speak for all atheists, I also won't speak for all gays... that's just my take on it.

[ideologue08]

There's something I don't understand though (and I'm talking about being openly homosexual in any "team" related activity), what is the fucking point? Nothing good is ever going to come out of it. I still remember how a teammate of mine came out as openly gay in our football team when I was younger...all that resulted was awkwardness in the changing room and far far more homophobic insults. What good is going to come out of being openly gay in situations like that? When you come out as gay, you're basically declaring that you are sexually attracted to guys, don't you see the awkwardness of being (partially) nude in front of such people? I mean girls and boys don't have the same changing room partly for that reason, am I wrong? Do gays have separate facilities in the army?

Hello, openly bisexual guy here! It's actually a pretty easy question to answer; staying closeted only leads to the bigots thinking it's okay to be bigoted, either though a mentality of "oh, they must have something to hide, they think it's shameful too!" or through sheer exclusion. The "point" such as there is one, is to put a human face on homosexuality, and maybe, bit by bit, make the homophobes retreat, or actually change, once they see that the "queer menace" is actually just the guy down the road.

The good that comes out of it is normalizing a previously acceptable target; it's not so much "I'm a gay sportsman now," as it is "I play sports with your guys, and I am also gay, and there's nothing specifically wrong or weird about that."

I'd also suggest that you've got your thinking backwards on the whole issue of homophobic insults; the issue that needs to be changed isn't the existence of a gay person in your midst, but that there's an asshole in your midst who thinks it's okay to denigrate someone based on sexual preference. You wouldn't be accepting that shit if he were making fun of you for being heterosexual, does the equation really change that much when you're not a part of the group being made fun of.

Your comments about awkwardness and sexual attraction made me tilt my head quizzically too; you're aware, of course, that whether or not your gay team mate is out of the closet, he's still gay, right? He doesn't suddenly become straight when he's concealing his preference. The only thing that changes is that, if he's closeted, then he'll be doing any perving on you guys in secret, something I doubt would be any more comfortable for you. When you think about it, the issue was never that another man was attracted to you- if he was, he was before you knew about it too- but that you were made aware of the possibility, which only shows that despite whatever efforts you happen to be employing, you aren't quite there in the tolerance stakes yet.

We dude-lovers aren't irrepressible lust monsters, there's no threat of us coming onto you if you don't want it. We can- through great feats of will- control our wild hunger for dongs... and you know that, because I somehow doubt your gay team mate changed suddenly upon coming out, started walking around the locker room at half mast or anything.

Anyway, just like I wouldn't presume to speak for all atheists, I also won't speak for all gays... that's just my take on it.

Thanks for your take. Personally I have no issue with someone perving me privately, I can't read their mind and I'm thankful for that. But when they openly declare that they find guys sexually attractive, then I'm sorry but they cannot expect the same treatment in the changing rooms or even outside the changing rooms (as you know, sports players do hug one another when they score goals or points etc. And they do put arms around eachother). I would never do that with a gay teammate, ever, how can I do that when I know they are sexually attracted to guys already? There'd be no difference between hugging a girl in that case and being with a guy. If the guy is not openly gay, then I would have no idea what he's thinking and so I wouldn't be careful like that, but when you declare it openly, it makes a big difference.

Both in the army and in sports, teammates help one another in stretching exercises as you might know, are you really that surprised when guys don't want their legs to be touched by a homosexual? I mean, is that really surprising, I don't think so. Once you make your sexual attraction to guys clear, it is not possible for guys to ignore that because it's clear that guys do turn you on. I would never change next to a homosexual for modesty reasons the same way I wouldn't change next to a girl. The bigotry only started once he came out in the open, if your sexually doesn't matter then why do you have to say you're gay when you know that there's plenty to look at in a changing room, and there's plenty of touching in sports, football is after all, a contact sport.

[Esquilax]

Thanks for your take. Personally I have no issue with someone perving me privately, I can't read their mind and I'm thankful for that. But when they openly declare that they find guys sexually attractive, then I'm sorry but they cannot expect the same treatment in the changing rooms or even outside the changing rooms (as you know, sports players do hug one another when they score goals or points etc. And they do put arms around eachother). I would never do that with a gay teammate, ever, how can I do that when I know they are sexually attracted to guys already? There'd be no difference between hugging a girl in that case and being with a guy. If the guy is not openly gay, then I would have no idea what he's thinking and so I wouldn't be careful like that, but when you declare it openly, it makes a big difference.

I guess I'm wondering what your issue is, then? What's so harmful about someone finding you attractive? Now, if the guy was feeling you up every time you were in contact, staring inappropriately, stuff like that, then yeah, I see your point. But just being attracted to you?

If it's just a squeamishness thing, then yeah, whatever. I take issue with people being outright exclusionary based on their own squeamishness, but if you've got an issue and you deal with it privately without expecting the rest of the world to accommodate, then it's hardly something I'm going to be offended at.

However, I do wanna ask: do you have this same fear with straight women? That they're all attracted to you because they're attracted to men? That'd be an interesting life to lead.

Both in the army and in sports, teammates help one another in stretching exercises as you might know, are you really that surprised when guys don't want their legs to be touched by a homosexual? I mean, is that really surprising, I don't think so.

It is to me: just because I can be attracted to men, doesn't mean I'm attracted to every man. Nor does it mean that every physical contact I have with a guy is sexual in nature. Your personal preferences are your own, I just don't want you thinking we're all on the pull all the time!

Once you make your sexual attraction to guys clear, it is not possible for guys to ignore that because it's clear that guys do turn you on. I would never change next to a homosexual for modesty reasons the same way I wouldn't change next to a girl.

I'm glad you mentioned women too.

The bigotry only started once he came out in the open, if your sexually doesn't matter then why do you have to say you're gay when you know that there's plenty to look at in a changing room, and there's plenty of touching in sports, football is after all, a contact sport.

My sexuality doesn't matter to me, it's not some world defining trait, it's just another part of the package. But it does matter to other people, and it does matter in the wrong ways, sometimes. It's not so much about coming out for the sake of being out, but about coming out so that someday we live in a world where someone being gay isn't huge news, any more than someone being straight would be.

[Whateverist]

This will sound blunt. The other thing that someone coming out and saying they're gay does is make you deal with a wider culture. Why would you assume, in the absence of declarations one way or the other, that everyone in a locker room is straight? Our culture has not been very gay friendly and being straight is definitely the privileged position to be in, traditionally. It is hard to imagine a locker room when there aren't references made to hot women and so on. By coming out as gay, a team mate may be saying "hey, don't assume we're all like you".

[ideologue08]

This will sound blunt. The other thing that someone coming out and saying they're gay does is make you deal with a wider culture. Why would you assume, in the absence of declarations one way or the other, that everyone in a locker room is straight? Our culture has not been very gay friendly and being straight is definitely the privileged position to be in, traditionally. It is hard to imagine a locker room when there aren't references made to hot women and so on. By coming out as gay, a team mate may be saying "hey, don't assume we're all like you".

But when you declare yourself to be gay in a male changing room, you're basically saying "I like the male body. I like dick. I love it. I want to suck on it. I love touching male ass". Do you think that's appropriate in a male changing room? That's why men and women don't have the same changing rooms. Because straight men like pussy, they like touching it, pounding it/ riding it. It creates modesty issues, pervs, how's that for team morale?

[Whateverist]

It creates modesty issues, pervs, how's that for team morale?

Assuming everyone's straight, probably not so good. But assuming you have a cross section of everyone in there, possibly like a breath of fresh air? Imagine going around hiding something basic about yourself for team morale? It might make you wonder if you really belong on the team. Maybe that's the point?