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what is god actually
#31
RE: what is god actually
(September 18, 2009 at 11:40 am)Eilonnwy Wrote:
(September 18, 2009 at 11:26 am)Guerilla Radio Wrote: I was under the impression that the concept of time was what was implied and not the measurement per se.

A straight forward question: What happened before the big bang?

We don't know. Time did not exist, we don't have a way of finding out, at least for now.

I recall a discussion with an old customer from my workplace at a cafe. Clever man. An expert in noise pollution and sound engineering. He brought up an idea that there could exist a beginning of time but that the existence of the universe could never be found in terms of a point in time. You could approach the beginning of the existence of the universe infinitesimally but you could never reach the state of the existence of the universe exactly at the beginning of time. I think he mentioned that it was mathematically similar to a hyperbola and that based on that theory, there could very well exist a parallel universe together with ours. But I paid no attention at this point and tried to shoo him away so I could serve the other customers.
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#32
RE: what is god actually
(September 19, 2009 at 4:49 am)Guerilla Radio Wrote:
(September 18, 2009 at 11:40 am)Eilonnwy Wrote:
(September 18, 2009 at 11:26 am)Guerilla Radio Wrote: I was under the impression that the concept of time was what was implied and not the measurement per se.

A straight forward question: What happened before the big bang?

We don't know. Time did not exist, we don't have a way of finding out, at least for now.

I recall a discussion with an old customer from my workplace at a cafe. Clever man. An expert in noise pollution and sound engineering. He brought up an idea that there could exist a beginning of time but that the existence of the universe could never be found in terms of a point in time. You could approach the beginning of the existence of the universe infinitesimally but you could never reach the state of the existence of the universe exactly at the beginning of time. I think he mentioned that it was mathematically similar to a hyperbola and that based on that theory, there could very well exist a parallel universe together with ours. But I paid no attention at this point and tried to shoo him away so I could serve the other customers.

That is fascinating. A parallel universe exactly as how ours is?
The dark side awaits YOU...AngryAtheism
"Only the dead have seen the end of war..." - Plato
“Those who wish to base their morality literally on the Bible have either not read it or not understood it...” - Richard Dawkins
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#33
RE: what is god actually
(September 19, 2009 at 4:54 am)Retorth Wrote:
(September 19, 2009 at 4:49 am)Guerilla Radio Wrote:
(September 18, 2009 at 11:40 am)Eilonnwy Wrote:
(September 18, 2009 at 11:26 am)Guerilla Radio Wrote: I was under the impression that the concept of time was what was implied and not the measurement per se.

A straight forward question: What happened before the big bang?

We don't know. Time did not exist, we don't have a way of finding out, at least for now.

I recall a discussion with an old customer from my workplace at a cafe. Clever man. An expert in noise pollution and sound engineering. He brought up an idea that there could exist a beginning of time but that the existence of the universe could never be found in terms of a point in time. You could approach the beginning of the existence of the universe infinitesimally but you could never reach the state of the existence of the universe exactly at the beginning of time. I think he mentioned that it was mathematically similar to a hyperbola and that based on that theory, there could very well exist a parallel universe together with ours. But I paid no attention at this point and tried to shoo him away so I could serve the other customers.

That is fascinating. A parallel universe exactly as how ours is?

I'd guess so. Kinda wish I got a little more information from him now that I am thinking about it.
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#34
RE: what is god actually
Yeah I'm kinda wishing that too. I'd like to hear more. Smile
The dark side awaits YOU...AngryAtheism
"Only the dead have seen the end of war..." - Plato
“Those who wish to base their morality literally on the Bible have either not read it or not understood it...” - Richard Dawkins
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#35
RE: what is god actually
I am sure there must be articles or journals of some sort published by institutions or universities? Google time..
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#36
RE: what is god actually
In late response to Adrian (I haven’t had much free time lately)


(September 18, 2009 at 3:51 am)Tiberius Wrote: That didn't add any context at all. The observation that other galaxies exist and the evidence for the expansion of the universe has nothing to do with the idea that time did not exist before the Big Bang.

Yeah, I kind of messed that up, your wikiquote started: "In 1931 Lemaître went further” I was trying to say what he went further of; that he independently derived Friedman’s equations, and used them to predict the expansion of the universe.

(September 18, 2009 at 3:51 am)Tiberius Wrote: As previously stated, string "theory" is only a hypothesis, as is M-theory.

All the science in this argument is theoretical, not hypothesis, not scientific law.

(September 18, 2009 at 3:51 am)Tiberius Wrote: It has no evidence whatsoever other than mathematical models, but mathematical models do not make it science. Science grounds itself on the testable and observable, and the current theories surrounding the Big Bang are based on this, and confirm the idea that time and space came into existence at the Big Bang.

Yes, the math is the reason it is science.

Math is not the only form of science, as observation is also a scientific method, however, observation cannot possibly go back before the big bang. This does not mean there was nothing before it, and according to both string theory and quantum loop gravity theory (two mutually exclusive scientific theory’s that both combine quantum mechanics and relativity) the big bang changed the nature of space time, as in possibly destroyed whatever was there before and created a new fabric of space-time; it is also possible nothing existed before it. These matters are highly theoretical no matter what theory you believe to be correct, and could be (and are) debated for hundreds of hours.

(September 18, 2009 at 3:51 am)Tiberius Wrote: The assumption that there was something there before it is only that, and assumption. I agree, it doesn't mean there was nothing there before it, but for you to say that your claim that there was something trumps my claim is a complete contradiction of your point, that "we cannot know". Passing off someone's research and education in the theory as a "novelty" doesn't earn you any points either. If you have evidence to present that there is a logical or materialistic reason to believe there was something before the Big Bang, present it.

My point is we cannot know, my opinion is that it is more logical for the big bang to have rearranged what was, than created space-time from nothing.

(September 18, 2009 at 3:51 am)Tiberius Wrote: For someone who claims not to believe in what they wrote at the start of the thread, you strive very hard to defend it. Methinks someone just got cold feet when their delusional writings were exposed for what they really were.

The original idea was one I came up with not two minutes before I posted it as an interesting philosophical idea, yet you seem to be saying I believe in the original idea of this thread, I can see how you may have thought that but it is still no more true than if I stated you were a catholic.
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys" - P.J. O'Rourke

"Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't." - Margaret Thatcher

"Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success." - Christopher Lasch

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#37
RE: what is god actually
I haven't done as much research as all of you all have so... I'm just going with what my mind can think up.

Why is the beginning of time limited to the big bang? I'm sure something caused or initiated the big bang, and how could something cause something else if time does not exist? It would seem to me that time was always in existance. Does time even exist? I guess it does since time near black holes changes. How is time defined in terms of science? Is it the rate at which sequences of events occur?

Don't go fucking phycho if I'm wrong haha, I'm only 16 lol. I like learning!! So enlighten me!Big Grin
--- RDW, 17
"Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence" - Carl Sagan
"I don't believe in [any] god[s]. I believe in man - his strength, his possibilities, his reason." - Gherman Titov, Soviet cosmonaut
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#38
RE: what is god actually
(September 22, 2009 at 9:40 pm)littlegrimlin1 Wrote: Don't go fucking phycho if I'm wrong haha, I'm only 16 lol. I like learning!! So enlighten me!Big Grin

How could you be wrong? We don't even know if we are right.
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#39
RE: what is god actually
As I said above, if time exists, then it what sense?

Where is it? Everywhere? Does it even have a location?

Is it really something that can exist? Something? I don't personally see how...

As I said above, yes it does exist as a concept...at least as a concept, yes it does. But so does God! One can hypothesize him too! But that doesn't mean he exists in reality. The same with time I think...in what sense does time "exist" in reality? I think it's how we measure what's happened, right? *shrugs*.

EvF
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#40
RE: what is god actually
Yeah that is how I perceive it too, as a concept, not a thing per se.
The dark side awaits YOU...AngryAtheism
"Only the dead have seen the end of war..." - Plato
“Those who wish to base their morality literally on the Bible have either not read it or not understood it...” - Richard Dawkins
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