Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind the NSA surveillance revelations.

[Tiberius]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun...rveillance

The individual responsible for one of the most significant leaks in US political history is Edward Snowden, a 29-year-old former technical assistant for the CIA and current employee of the defence contractor Booz Allen Hamilton. Snowden has been working at the National Security Agency for the last four years as an employee of various outside contractors, including Booz Allen and Dell.

[Minimalist]

All he has done is force an open debate.

That in itself is fine. The only other debate on this stuff was in the aftermath of 9-11.

I suspect the result of that debate will be that the majority is fine with it.

Even I'm not sure which side of the equation I'll come down on.

The problem is bio and nuclear terrorism. What is it worth to prevent a nuke or a plague?

[Jackalope]

All he has done is force an open debate.

That in itself is fine. The only other debate on this stuff was in the aftermath of 9-11.

I suspect the result of that debate will be that the majority is fine with it.

Even I'm not sure which side of the equation I'll come down on.

The problem is bio and nuclear terrorism. What is it worth to prevent a nuke or a plague?

We can have that debate as a nation, and we should. However, when these programs and intentions to create such programs are secret, we cannot.

[Autumnlicious]

We also cannot allow data to be held indefinitely.

There is a half life of which every detail you post, purchae and say is remotely relevant to state security in terms of anti-terrorism.

[Minimalist]

However, when these programs and intentions to create such programs are secret, we cannot.

Honestly. How "secret" was it?

[Jackalope]

However, when these programs and intentions to create such programs are secret, we cannot.

Honestly. How "secret" was it?

The intent was (and still is) to keep the scope of domestic surveillance secret from the people. We didn't know the extent of it, all we had was conjecture.

As with many other things, intent matters.

[Minimalist]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story...33&ft=1&f=

December 2005: The New York Times reports that the National Security Agency is secretly eavesdropping on telephone calls and emails of Americans communicating with people outside the United States, without seeking warrants from the FISA court. What becomes known as "warrantless wiretapping" began in 2002 under a presidential order. Critics call it unconstitutional, but the Bush administration says it's legal.

___

March 2006: Congress votes to renew the Patriot Act, although lawmakers voice concerns about the government's broad powers to conduct surveillance and collect data.

Right. No one knew.

[Jackalope]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story...33&ft=1&f=

December 2005: The New York Times reports that the National Security Agency is secretly eavesdropping on telephone calls and emails of Americans communicating with people outside the United States, without seeking warrants from the FISA court. What becomes known as "warrantless wiretapping" began in 2002 under a presidential order. Critics call it unconstitutional, but the Bush administration says it's legal.

___

March 2006: Congress votes to renew the Patriot Act, although lawmakers voice concerns about the government's broad powers to conduct surveillance and collect data.

Right. No one knew.

Did we know that the NSA had backdoors into 9 major internet companies? Did we know, before a few days ago, that FISA was issuing warrants to telecommunications carriers to compel them to turn over bulk call metadata? Do we now know the scope of domestic surveillance?

No one is claiming that no one knew anything. We didn't (and probably still don't) know the extent of it - and we should.

[Minimalist]

Sometimes people do not want to know.

[Anomalocaris]

Sometimes people do not want to know.

I don't want to live in a society where my rights can be taken away with confidence and impunity merely because the majority didn't want to know it has been taken away.

While I am often for the majority, I seldom wants to be of the majority.