Limits on speech on this forum

[Full Circle]

Hey all,

As a new member of this forum I have a question regarding the boundaries of what is tolerated here. This may turn out to be a long post and I sincerely apologize for that now.

I have read the Rules and browsed ten pages of this heading and was unable to find exactly what I was looking for. I came to AF in the hopes of finding a forum that is moderated judiciously and pragmatically.

I am all for free speech however yelling fire in a crowded theatre has never been protected. I am for these types of limits.

Recently you have seen a group of new members show up here that obviously already knew each other. This exodus from another atheist forum stems from a disagreement on this very topic. I want to bring this issue up before I find myself in the same situation I found myself in over there, very attached to a great number of people, yet having to make the difficult choice of parting ways because of a deep difference on what is acceptable to me and what crosses the proverbial line in my estimation.

As I am new I do not know the history of this forum or if this topic has been previously discussed and if I simply missed the explanations. With this in mind I ask for your indulgence.

My specific questions of what is or is not tolerated here are the following:

1) A direct threat
2) Implied threat
3) General threat
4) Speech inciting violence, direct or indirect
5) Hate speech
6) Speech promoting illegal acts
7) Speech soliciting to recruit for illegal acts

I know it is difficult to simply answer yes or no without specifics but a general understanding of the forums position on any and all of these would be greatly appreciated. I'm also willing to discuss specific examples if you all think that would help clarify.

Thank you all in advance.

FC

[Tiberius]

1) A direct threat

Not allowed. (See "Disrupting Forum Activity" section of the rules).

2) Implied threat

Can you give an example of what you mean?

3) General threat

Again, an example would be great.

4) Speech inciting violence, direct or indirect

Allowed, unless it is directed towards a specific member as a threat (see above).

5) Hate speech

Allowed, unless said hate speech is directed towards a specific member. This is covered by our "personal attacks" rule.

6) Speech promoting illegal acts

Allowed.

7) Speech soliciting to recruit for illegal acts

Allowed, though I think it would depend on the situation. Trying to find people to smoke weed with is completely different to trying to find people to help you beat someone up / steal things.

[Full Circle]

1) A direct threat

Not allowed. (See "Disrupting Forum Activity" section of the rules).

2) Implied threat

Can you give an example of what you mean?

3) General threat

Again, an example would be great.

4) Speech inciting violence, direct or indirect

Allowed, unless it is directed towards a specific member as a threat (see above).

5) Hate speech

Allowed, unless said hate speech is directed towards a specific member. This is covered by our "personal attacks" rule.

6) Speech promoting illegal acts

Allowed.

7) Speech soliciting to recruit for illegal acts

Allowed, though I think it would depend on the situation. Trying to find people to smoke weed with is completely different to trying to find people to help you beat someone up / steal things.

Thank you for your quick response Tiberius.

An implied or general threat might sound like this:
"Mouthy overeducated morons wrong about everlasting life should be shot in the head."
That one would also fall under inciting violence I would think.

As for speech soliciting illegal acts, would a general thread/discussion on pedophilia that includes references to outside sites be allowed?

One of the things I have noticed is that there is an area 69 where you must be 18 to enter in which case it isn't in the general section.

Those are the two specific examples I can think of at the moment.

[Minimalist]

[Chas]

FC, did you leave because the pedo thread was quashed or because it was not quashed quickly enough?

[Cyberman]

I can't really add anything to what Tiberius already said, but to address your second post:

An implied or general threat might sound like this:
"Mouthy overeducated morons wrong about everlasting life should be shot in the head."
That one would also fall under inciting violence I would think.

Actually that would be more of an expression of opinion and no different to "Atheists deserve to be tortured in Hell for all eternity", though considerably less preachy. Perfectly acceptable ("No Preaching" rule notwithstanding) and indeed the primary purpose of a discussion forum.

As for speech soliciting illegal acts, would a general thread/discussion on pedophilia that includes references to outside sites be allowed?

We have had several such threads in the past on that very subject. I'm not sure about the outside sites - I think that would be dependent on context. Would such references violate the general "No Pornography" rule, for instance?

One of the things I have noticed is that there is an area 69 where you must be 18 to enter in which case it isn't in the general section.

Correct. That's a private subforum for members to post/share things of an adult nature which would not be suitable for the forum proper. It has nothing to do with free speech, except inasmuch as it attempts to protect the expression of ir in an adult context.

[Jackalope]

Circle - I'm a moderator here and will answer these specific issues from that perspective. Most actions taken here are by staff consensus so I am only presenting what my interpretation would be, not necessarily what the consensus would be.

An implied or general threat might sound like this:
"Mouthy overeducated morons wrong about everlasting life should be shot in the head."
That one would also fall under inciting violence I would think.

If it were explicitly directed towards a forum member or public figure, I would take the position that it would be not allowed. If not, then it would be, as distasteful as I find such remarks.

As for speech soliciting illegal acts, would a general thread/discussion on pedophilia that includes references to outside sites be allowed?

If the link contained pornographic / unlawful material, then such links would likely be removed when reported or discovered.

One of the things I have noticed is that there is an area 69 where you must be 18 to enter in which case it isn't in the general section.

Yes. The rules against pornography are relaxed in that area. CP is still absolutely forbidden.

[Tiberius]

An implied or general threat might sound like this:
"Mouthy overeducated morons wrong about everlasting life should be shot in the head."
That one would also fall under inciting violence I would think.

As Cthulhu Dreaming put; if it were directed at someone then it wouldn't be allowed. If it were a blanket statement (such as yours) then it would be allowed. It really depends on what the context is; we don't generally view the rules as strict standards, but more as flexible guidelines that depend on circumstance.

As for speech soliciting illegal acts, would a general thread/discussion on pedophilia that includes references to outside sites be allowed?

We have had discussions in the past about pedophilia and legalising pedophilia. There is nothing wrong with discussion of such ideas, though if the "references" include links to illegal content (i.e. child porn sites, etc.) then obviously that would violate the rules.

One of the things I have noticed is that there is an area 69 where you must be 18 to enter in which case it isn't in the general section.

Porn can be posted in that area, as well as other explicit materials, but nothing that involves unwilling individuals (again, child porn is a good example).

[Full Circle]

I want to thank you all for your thoughtful responses to my questions.

Sometimes the best way to gauge a person or an organization is not just with what they say but how it is said and how situations are handled, thoughtfully or unthinkingly.

I truly appreciate your candor.

FC

[pocaracas]

How do you know these snippets even exist?!?!

---

It is as all online forums should be.
The same kind of rules apply on a forum where I'm mod... since it's a warez forum, with a dedicated porn area, all porn goes is there. CP is strictly forbidden, but discussions about it are completely allowed.
Much like this one, it is targeted at the 13+ population, so some care needs to be had.
There was a time when a few members liked to post some truly shocking videos/images.... those were removed as soon as possible as they were only meant to shock and disgust and every reply from members was just: dude, don't ever do that again!... But, what has been seen cannot be unseen...

Bottom line: there's a good reason why google gave me this forum as the first hit when I searched for "atheist forum" a year ago.
Google knows!