I need Research backup for atheism debate

[wangsit]

Firstly, I come from religious family.
And since 2 years, I never go to church again...because
(1)I think it will not change our (my) live, even if you pray and strictly obey church law.
(2)After that, I even begin thinking that religion is another source to feel better when bad things happen.
(3)And I think that although I understand God concept, I think it is irrational for me to accept it today.

Many weeks I have debate with my parents and friends that are believer.
They want me to believe again, but It is hard for me to accept it.
We debate about (1)pray, (2)Jesus, (3)Jesus's item heritage, (4)bible, (5)evolution...

I have not searched all the post in this group.
So, If there is another similiar topics/threads, I am Sorry...

(1) I believe there is no result in praying someone, although there is someone that healed by it. It is placebo effect.
There is a research in praying, one group is prayed and another is not.
Each group doesn't know if they are experiment's subject and they also dont know if they are prayed by prayer group.
The result is there is no different in each subject.

However, anyone does not believe it. And demand paper of that research paper. They don't want one paper but as much as I can search.
Do you have accountable research papers?

And others papers topic about religion? like Islamic fasting month that give bad result to body, scientific prove about probability of miracle happen in church is less than hospital.

(2) Talk about Jesus...
Someone in this Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9yvm8h8GnY)
said that there is many Jesus in his time, I would like to watch a documentary video about it.
Do you have youtube link about it...

Also, my friends keep believe that Jesus is exist because he has seen Jesus's nail and bloody torch wood crown in Israel Museum.

I have seen video about it, and it is a hoax, because time carbon tells that it is come from 600M, and Jesus is born 2000 years ago.
My friend insist that it is scientific proven it is real.
I have tried to seach the video, but I could not find it.
Do you have a link of it?

(3) Talk about the Bible...
Since I was child, I have seen many contradict in Bible.
The bible like saying that we should love our enemy but God doesnt.
I have read an article about contradicting story in Bible,
like this website...
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/page/b...radictions
Do you have others good reference?
I want to compile it...

(4) About evolution..
I think that we are live in this Earth because we are lucky, just that.
However, my friend says that it is a give from God.
(It is easy to tell it is a give, if you come from rich family)
How to prove that evolution is exist and we are just lucky that we live in Earth?

I think, even though I will have accountable source, they will not accept it.
I want to make a little research for myself, and I am thinking to make a thread about scientific study about religion if no one has made it.
Sorry for long post.

Potato...

[pineapplebunnybounce]

Hey, welcome.

You ask for a lot of things ... most are unnecessary for the "atheist" argument.

But I'll weigh in on a few things that are already up my alley.

1) Clinical trials of prayer studies are like ... LOL ok? Prayer studies are a joke. I've never looked one up in my life. Because you cannot control for shit. You are trusting that the people who said they prayed, prayed. How do you know the ones who were not prayed for were ACTUALLY not prayed for? It's crazy, they have loved ones too, some religious. The inability to even control for the one variable you're testing for just makes the entire study worthless. I'm also of the opinion that money is better spent researching real stuff. And even if it can be controlled for and it showed efficacy beyond placebo effect, it does not follow that god exists. The entire thing doesn't make sense to me.

Edit: 3) I don't see the point of this exercise, as well. Because there are plenty of fiction out there with no contradictions in them. Having no contradictions =/= real. It's irrelevant to whether or not god exists.

4) Give them a textbook. If they are delusional enough to deny textbook science using evidence from a bible, they're too far gone.

[wangsit]

(1) Yeah... I think so... I have search it by google, I have found several blog and news about it.
However, as you say, It is hard to control it...
As I read this website
http://health.howstuffworks.com/wellness...ealing.htm
It is hard to make it scientific, as the result is mixed...

I have searched about prayer effect in animal, the effect is positive.
Source : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17131981
The researcher says that intercessory prayer (IP) positively effect in human and animal.
But, it is only one reseacrh paper.

Meanwhile, quackwatch.com gives several papers about praying.
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRela...faith.html

(3) After read several contradiction in Bible, some part of Bible is weird...
God makes bad laws...
God says that you should forgive, while in others part...God Says an eye for an eye...

I think the bible is sum of people's interpretation of God.
It is inconsistent...

(4) I have offer them the video, but they does not want to watch it or even copy it... They keep what they want to believe, seriously...
If they ask me what my religion is, I will say, "In Cluthu, I trust" or "Pastafarianism"

[pineapplebunnybounce]

1) Because it cannot be controlled, all results are meaningless. It doesn't matter if they got published, it's meaningless. There's no point looking into it.

3) Yes but even if the bible has no contradictions, it wouldn't mean god exists.

4) If they don't understand evolution and they want to reject it, no need to take them seriously. They're a waste of time.

[Crossless2.0]

At the risk of sounding flippant, when you debate with these people, the following three perfectly reasonable tactics will usually suffice to bring their "arguments" to a screeching halt (if not cause their heads to explode):

1) When they make unsubstantiated claims, as they must, ask for evidence;

2) When they try to appeal to the Bible as evidence that this or that happened, interject with, "You mean allegedly, don't you?"; and

3) Learn the various logical fallacies and call them on it whenever they commit one, as they inevitably will.

Remember, atheists don't bear the burden of evidence. If people want you to believe in their imaginary friends, it's up to them to persuade you.

Read through the threads here and on other such forums. You will be more than adequately armed to shoot fish in a barrel.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Wangsit, if they refuse to accept evolution ('believe in evolution' is the wrong phrase), I would suggest beating them soundly about the head and shoulders with a fossil.

Boru