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"God will even the score"
#61
RE: "God will even the score"
(August 19, 2013 at 12:36 am)Raeven Wrote: By custom and practice, every single one of those oaths required me to include the words, "so help you God," to complete the oath.

That is not the case anymore. One has a choice. One can opt out of the "under god" part by swearing a secular oath. One can also swear with a hand on the Koran, or not even use a holy text at all.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
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#62
RE: "God will even the score"
Maelstrom... that's not new. You're correct to the extent that the person RECEIVING the oath may request to affirm rather than swear. That was always in effect. But I, as the person charged with administering the oath, did not have that choice. Hope that makes sense. That was the point I was making.
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#63
RE: "God will even the score"
(August 18, 2013 at 6:13 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Placing restrictions on opinionated speech based is never acceptible. If neo-Nazi groups or the Black Panthers want to pass out literature and march in public, they have the right to do so. I can ignore, respond, or ridicule them. If I go out all dandied up and someone on the street calls me a fag, I can tell him to fuck off. It's not always pretty, pleasant or comfortable, but that's how free speech works. The second, we start to say communists can pass out pamphlets but Jehovah Witnesses cannot, is the second we cease to be free.

Young people are full of hormones and confused when they are starting to understand their sexuality. It is difficult time in which one is trying to develop a self-identity and these feelings of sexuality bubble up without control. Imagine the conflict and self-hatred a young person feels when they hear others proclaiming that those urges, resulting from things beyond your control, will lead you to hell. You do have the right to do so due to freedom of speech, however, others can utilize that same right to minimize the harm stemming from it.

Also, it is easy to dismiss a racist as a rambling idiot. It is a different ballgame when claims the condemnation comes from god.


(August 18, 2013 at 6:13 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: For the believer, practicing our faith is not confined to weekend worship services and potlucks. It affects all aspects of our life, including how we live and participate in society at large. While many here fear the intrusion of religion into political matters, the actual trend has been the other way around.

If you truly think the trend is the other way around, I suggest you take a long, hard look at the reality of the relationship between religion and politics.

(August 18, 2013 at 6:13 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Here in Illinois, doctors and pharmacists that oppose abortion must violate their sincerely held believes to provide abortion procedures and drugs and they are not permitted to instead refer clients to associates that do not have problems with abortion.

In this example, the liberties of the person seeking abortion drugs have not been denied. They are free to buy their drugs elsewhere. On the other hand, the pharmacist has been denied her liberty. The State is dictating what she must do.

I recognize the fact that professionals with licenses take on certain obligations to serve the public good, but I do not see forcing them to violate the tenets of their religion a legitimate use of state power. What's the next step, telling observant Jewish pharmacists that they must stay open on Saturday just in case a 13-year old wants to by Plan-B?

In other word, Pro-Abortion groups are imposing their beliefs on people trying to live according to the dictates of their religion. Not the other way around.

What is being imposed upon them is the law of the land. Abortion is legal, so a person as a right to one if they choose. You can't circumvent the law based on religious beliefs.

(August 18, 2013 at 6:13 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: That depends on your use of the word 'dictate'. If you mean using the coercive power of the state to force people to do our not do things against their conscience then, yes, I fully agree. But if I want to publicly condemn fornication, sodomy, sadism, and pre-marital sex, I should be free to do so. And you should be free to promote public acceptance of these practices.

The problem is that many people that condemn homosexuality take it one step further and attempt to deny rights to homosexuals. My point was that you can shout your objections from the rooftops but imposing your beliefs on others is the problem.

(August 18, 2013 at 6:13 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: But I do not have the right to legally interfere with the private lives of others who are minding their own business nor do you have the right to legally prevent me from saying whatever I want (so long as I am not threatening immediate violence.)

Agreed. Do you find people trying to do this?

(August 18, 2013 at 6:13 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Uncontrolable factors? Apart from rape, I seems that people are pretty much in control of with whom and how they choose to have sex.

Everyone has innate desires, often very strong desires, and sometimes evil and self-destructive ones. But unless they are mentally unstable they have some control over how they act on those desires. Some people have a genetic disposition toward alcoholism. And even if they can never fully purge themselves of their desire for drink, they can and many do take control of their lives.

So if I say to my sister, "You're a drunk and you need to clean up your life." Does that make be a bigot for calling her a drunk?

Race and biological sex are uncontrollable. Being born with a congenital disease is uncontrollable. And I will conceed that being born with an innate sexual desire for same-sex. How we act on our desires is a choice.

Yes, we can control who we have sex with, however, we cannot control who we are attracted to. By saying one attraction should not be acted upon is imposing celibacy upon those only attracted to the opposite gender. We are sexual beings. Sex is biologically ingrained into our nature and expressing our sexuality is both physically and mentally healthy.

So, your sister may be predisposed to drink, but evolution has not turned her into a being whose very nature is to drink. By equating the two, you are misrepresenting the role that sex plays for a human to live a healthy life.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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