Abortion Viewed in Moral Terms

[CapnAwesome]

I don't think it's a "straw man" when the facts support otherwise.

Just to nitpick a little I think it was very obvious that I was referring to this quote.

Is it? Kind of strange? LOL, I'm amazed at some men who always act like pregnancy happens as if a woman just decided to have sex with h
erself -- "hey, what the hell, I'll take a chance just this one time, irresponsible bitch that I am, and ooohhh -- I can't wait to have my next abortion!" -- and ended up pregnant.

What facts exactly are in that statement? As far as I'm aware no one I've ever heard as said anything like that. You want to believe that people on the other side of your argument act that way but the reality is they don't. They have their arguments and they don't sound anything like that. Easier to reply against that though and ironic considering that two seconds later you call me sanctimonious.

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There weren't "morning after" pills when I had my "unexpected pregnancy." Just to be clear.

How old are you?

[Raeven]

Sorry, it wasn't fairly obvious. As for your being sanctimonious... I think the posts stand for themselves.

Two people on this board have already volunteered circumstances under which they were being responsible and suffered "unexpected pregnancies," myself being one. You've had nothing to say about how we ought to have dealt with the circumstances as they were presented to us. Or do you just ignore those facts when they don't suit your world view?

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I'm 56. Long time ago.

[CapnAwesome]

Sorry, it wasn't fairly obvious. As for your being sanctimonious... I think the posts stand for themselves.

Two people on this board have already volunteered circumstances under which they were being responsible and suffered "unexpected pregnancies," myself being one. You've had nothing to say about how we ought to have dealt with the circumstances as they were presented to us. Or do you just ignore those facts when they don't suit your world view?

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I'm 56. Long time ago.

So are we talking about abortion in the 1970's or today? I mean I was talking about today. I kind of hate this whole argument because like I feel the need to repeat over and over again, I am pro-choice. However the strawmanning and the 'if you aren't 100% with us you are against us' attitude of this thread is very off putting. It would be nice if I could get just one of you to admit that the majority of abortions happen because people were irresponsible. The degree of irresponsibility varies but that is the truth. I don't think it's the end of the world that this happens because I don't put much value in a fetus. I also feel a little uncomfortable because when you guys make things so personal it puts me in the position of arguing against women who have had abortions, which isn't really something I want to do.

That being said here goes. Your situation isn't the same as what I'm talking about because today there are morning after pills. I'm talking about personal responsibility and all these issues as it affects me and people who are dealing with these issues today. I'm also talking about these things in a broad sense. So even if your individual case is an exception (and we only have your word for it that it is.) It doesn't change that most people (men and women) who lead to abortions happening do so out of irresponsibility. On that note I think I'll move on to something else.

[Raeven]

You're right, you only have my word for it. And you only have festive1's word for her situation, too. No doubt we're both in the habit of sharing deeply personal information on public internet boards for the sake of having you on. And yes, an abortion in the late 70s -- though I've no idea what difference that makes. The "morning after" pill is great if you're a woman who is informed enough to know it exists. I'll bet quite a few young women TODAY are not aware of this option.

You assert that "the majority of abortions happen because people were irresponsible," and it would be "nice" if we would just agree with that statement. Sorry, but I haven't seen you offer any factual support for your assertion -- nor was it something I was arguing against. I simply said that "unexpected pregnancies" occur.

I'm not going on a big ol' hunt for statistics and facts, but I will say that I know a lot of women who have had abortions. And I run with a fairly average crowd of people. Virtually all of the women I know who have discussed this with me say they became pregnant because of defective birth control. One was raped. By her husband. So yes; these are empirical observations, but I think they are common. They would be in your circle, too, I believe. All I'm trying to get YOU to acknowledge is that "unexpected pregnancies" DO happen. That was the snide-ish comment that started all this off, wasn't it?

[A Theist]

Is it? Kind of strange? LOL, I'm amazed at some men who always act like pregnancy happens as if a woman just decided to have sex with herself -- "hey, what the hell, I'll take a chance just this one time, irresponsible bitch that I am, and ooohhh -- I can't wait to have my next abortion!" -- and ended up pregnant. And now it's all her problem. At what point do these men decide they have some responsibility? Three dates? Marriage? See, 'coz for women, it's different. They don't get to decide when they'll take responsibility. If they get pregnant, they're responsible -- WHETHER THE MAN STEPS UP OR HE DOESN'T.

I covered several scenarios where a woman could end up "unexpectedly pregnant" in an earlier post. Seriously, if you can't figure this one out, you're living in a different reality than I am. If there is one single person on this board who hasn't at one time or another, not one single time, had unprotected sex and just crossed their damn fingers that a pregnancy wouldn't result, please -- feel free to speak up. I'm going to bet on a big fat ONE.

Because I'm sure you haven't... right?

No I haven't. Even if what you said was true, it's still incredibly irresponsible. The fact that the majority of people have been really sexually irresponsible doesn't mean that it's not irresponsible. I've been sexually active pretty consistently for a decade and I make sure that whoever I'm with is either on the pill and if they aren't for whatever reason I wear a rubber. Always. It's not that hard. Carry a fucking condom with you. I absolutely do not want a child nor do I want to be the cause of an abortion. Lets face reality for a moment most abortions are not from one of those scenarios but rather from people being irresponsible.

I'm as pro-choice as any of you but it's crazy to think otherwise and it's also crazy the (left wing) mentality that if you do not agree 100% with you guys you are some woman hater nazi. Give it a rest and admit to what actually goes on in the real world. I'd love to get just one of you to admit that the majority of abortions are the result of people making bad decisions. Just once. Maybe STDs 'just happen' too.

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That is exactly what most of those douchebags think....if you can call it "thinking."

No it's not. It's a strawman. Why do you guys only recognize strawmen arguments when they are applied to your side?

No it's not. It's a strawman. Why do you guys only recognize strawmen arguments when they are applied to your side?

I think it's because these hypocrites are blinded by their own double standards.