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Current time: March 28, 2024, 3:32 pm

Poll: Should abortion be...
This poll is closed.
Legal in all cases
32.14%
9 32.14%
Legal in most cases
46.43%
13 46.43%
Illegal in most cases
17.86%
5 17.86%
Illegal in all cases
0%
0 0%
Don't know
3.57%
1 3.57%
Total 28 vote(s) 100%
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Abortion Viewed in Moral Terms
#11
RE: Abortion Viewed in Moral Terms
Thanks pineapple. I hadn't thought of that aspect. Makes God a bit of a cunt then doesn't it. And how does anyone know that it wasn't God's will that you would want an abortion in the first place? I always manage to underestimate how fucked up religion is.
Kuusi palaa, ja on viimeinen kerta kun annan vaimoni laittaa jouluvalot!
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#12
RE: Abortion Viewed in Moral Terms
(August 19, 2013 at 12:54 pm)max-greece Wrote: Thanks pineapple. I hadn't thought of that aspect. Makes God a bit of a cunt then doesn't it. And how does anyone know that it wasn't God's will that you would want an abortion in the first place? I always manage to underestimate how fucked up religion is.

Never occurred to me until a Catholic friend told me that a family is planned by god, not us.

It's god's will that you decide to have sex (unless you're not married, then it's the devil!!), but not his will that you decide to have an abortion.

Yea, I don't get it either.
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#13
RE: Abortion Viewed in Moral Terms
(August 19, 2013 at 12:48 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote:
(August 19, 2013 at 12:46 pm)max-greece Wrote: If you believe in god and are against abortion I have never understood how you give God such a free pass on this. After all God is the biggest aborter of fetuses there is - without the mothers permission I might add.

I think it's not about "killing babies", it's more about not violating god's will. Which is why the churches don't like condoms either. You don't plan your life, god does.

Well fuck them.
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#14
RE: Abortion Viewed in Moral Terms
(August 19, 2013 at 12:48 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: You don't plan your life, god does.
It's funny how an "all powerful" god can be beaten by a piece of rubber or some hormones, isn't it?
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#15
RE: Abortion Viewed in Moral Terms
(August 19, 2013 at 11:00 am)The Germans are coming Wrote: It is a social issue and not a moral one. The argument that this is suposedly a moral issue is nothing but a refuge for people who cannot accept or willingly ignore social structures and realities.

Well, you've outright dismissed the fact that morals exist within a societal framework. Since we are assuming that morality is subjective here. One thing that is true about how humans work, is that our morals change and adapt in various ways and societal attitudes and beliefs affect them. It's brought up often but slavery is a great example of this. You might be forgiven for agreeing with slavery prior to their emancipation, because your society told you it was okay. Society told you it was okay because people's attitudes and beliefs, that dictate their moral values, change the fabric of society.

Similarly abortion is viewed as okay by many because this is what our society tells us. Medical establishments (I am discounting the US as it is a religious hotbed), provide pregnant women with information on abortion should they wish to have one by default. They also encourage women to consider abortion should their fetus be detected as having Downs. Why is this the common thought? Science? Not really, since science neither condones nor objects to abortion. It's what we do with the information we are dealt. Prior to Woe v Wade, this was the reality for women:

Quote:Before 1973, single women who got pregnant were fired from their jobs. Younger ones were sent to maternity homes for unwed mothers and their children were put up for adoption. Married women who got pregnant were forced to carry pregnancies to term regardless of their circumstances — even if they had so many children that they couldn't afford to feed another one; even if they had metastasized cancer; even if their fetuses couldn't live outside the womb because these fetuses had developed without a heart or brain.

Back then, women had a legitimate reason to desire the legality of abortion. They had limited or no access to birth control. Women were discriminated against in the workplace, whether they were single mothers or no. All these factors combined and it's understandable why Roe v Wade would be seen as a saving grace for millions of women. But times have changed.

Women have access to birth control, of various forms, as do men. Women are allowed maternity leave, and (like I said, depending on whether you live in the US or not) are entitled to maternity leave with pay. I don't know where you got your information about mums being "not exactly the most wanted thing on the jobmarket" from, and am curious to know your sources. I am a single mum, and can find work just as easily as any other women. It comes down to skills, availability, experience and qualifications, not marital and motherhood status.

So why do we still need abortions when pregnancies can be easily prevented? We're justifying abortion with lazy, half-measured assumptions about the state of our social system and women's rights. Abortions were legalized not for this, but to assist medical practitioners who were afraid of the legal rammifications of performing them on women. A little known fact, that very few seem to be aware of, but interesting nonetheless.

Quote:So if anyone here argues about "morality" surrounding this subject he or she, but probably a he who wants women behind the stove and maybe even slapped one or two women arround is nothing but a mysogenist fraud and coward who lacks the courage and brains to propose a socialy viable alternative to abortion.

Morality is important. How we decide to view one act or another from a moral standpoint is, and always will be, important. Morality and social attitudes frame our world history. They can change the course of history. To denote the moral and ethical implications of abortions as being nothing more than a stab at women who belong in the kitchen and using it as an excuse to keep them down, is lazy, lazy work on your part.

Quote:Who am I joking. Not a single one of the people here who keep whining about how bad abnortion is, neither Drich, Godshild, ronedee, frodo or any of the others have the moral responsibility of wasting even a thought on how conditions in their society can be improved. They would rather waste their time on useless mental masturbation over an issue and ignoring or even getting somekind of plessure out of misery in their society.

Baseless projection and does not belong in a discussion like this. Social change occurs in stages. Discussion of the topic and debating it is just one way to achieve change, albeit a small and arguably insignificant one on a larger scale. You think every social rights movement began with people just deciding to picket the US Senate one day without knowing why or what they were doing it for? You may not agree with opposing views but that doesn't mean those who you speak of don't care about the issue of abortion beyond using it as mental masturbation and achieving a sense of high and mightiness.

Funny as well, how many people upvote this comment. It's without any substance. But I guess this is what people do. We beef up those who agree with us despite what they may say. Herd mentality is a powerful thing.
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#16
RE: Abortion Viewed in Moral Terms
I'm honestly not sure where I stand on abortion anymore, as I've been deeply rethinking my position. I know for certain, however, that it needs to be allowed in certain cases, such as when the the mother's life is in danger and pregnancy by rape.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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#17
RE: Abortion Viewed in Moral Terms
(August 21, 2013 at 12:29 pm)Faith No More Wrote: I'm honestly not sure where I stand on abortion anymore, as I've been deeply rethinking my position. I know for certain, however, that it needs to be allowed in certain cases, such as when the the mother's life is in danger and pregnancy by rape.
That's mine stance as well. If someone can't afford to have a baby then give it to adoption.
"Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it" - Robert A. Heinlein
Would you blame sports car for an accident instead of drunk driver?
Good guy Ronald Reagan

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#18
RE: Abortion Viewed in Moral Terms
(August 21, 2013 at 12:29 pm)Faith No More Wrote: I'm honestly not sure where I stand on abortion anymore, as I've been deeply rethinking my position. I know for certain, however, that it needs to be allowed in certain cases, such as when the the mother's life is in danger and pregnancy by rape.

I am only sure of my stance, if I got pregnant I would most likely keep the fetus. Even so, I cannot ever judge a woman if she keeps or doesn't keep hers, it's none of my business and I think it's vital that the options remain. Most of all I'd like to see people practice safe sex and get educated in the matter, but accidents will always happen and people who prefer not to keep their fetus, should have the right to do so.
When I was young, there was a god with infinite power protecting me. Is there anyone else who felt that way? And was sure about it? but the first time I fell in love, I was thrown down - or maybe I broke free - and I bade farewell to God and became human. Now I don't have God's protection, and I walk on the ground without wings, but I don't regret this hardship. I want to live as a person. -Arina Tanemura

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#19
RE: Abortion Viewed in Moral Terms
(August 21, 2013 at 12:31 pm)wwjs Wrote:
(August 21, 2013 at 12:29 pm)Faith No More Wrote: I'm honestly not sure where I stand on abortion anymore, as I've been deeply rethinking my position. I know for certain, however, that it needs to be allowed in certain cases, such as when the the mother's life is in danger and pregnancy by rape.
That's mine stance as well. If someone can't afford to have a baby then give it to adoption.

Well, get knocked up and decide then to exercise your opinion.
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#20
RE: Abortion Viewed in Moral Terms
(August 19, 2013 at 11:00 am)The Germans are coming Wrote: It is a social issue and not a moral one. The argument that this is suposedly a moral issue is nothing but a refuge for people who cannot accept or willingly ignore social structures and realities.

I actualy know women who have been left alone by their men and who have to care for a child alone. Caring for a child alone can drive you into ruin both finacialy and your health. It is not a myth but a fact that single mums are in danger of falling into poverty and it is also not a myth that single mums just like any other mum are not exactly the most wanted thing on the jobmarket.

So if anyone here argues about "morality" surrounding this subject he or she, but probably a he who wants women behind the stove and maybe even slapped one or two women arround is nothing but a mysogenist fraud and coward who lacks the courage and brains to propose a socialy viable alternative to abortion.

Who am I joking. Not a single one of the people here who keep whining about how bad abnortion is, neither Drich, Godshild, ronedee, frodo or any of the others have the moral responsibility of wasting even a thought on how conditions in their society can be improved. They would rather waste their time on useless mental masturbation over an issue and ignoring or even getting somekind of plessure out of misery in their society.

Who gave you permission to declare this a social issue, your socialist beliefs undermine the morality that has keep this world going, I suppose murder for you is nothing but a thing. Studies in the U.S. have shown many women have extreme mental problems from guilt after an abortion, even women who are not believers in God. So the above you have named care far more than you could ever comprehend. I do believe there are a few instances where abortion is a viable option, but only is the mother chooses to.

Smile GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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