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Current time: March 28, 2024, 3:03 pm

Poll: Have you given fair (scientifically detached from preconceptions) consideration to a debate between racists and egalitarians?
This poll is closed.
Yes. and the egalitiarians, being right, always win.
26.67%
4 26.67%
Yes, and most of the time the egalitarians are the more convincing.
26.67%
4 26.67%
Yes, and I've noticed that both sides often make persuasive cases.
13.33%
2 13.33%
Yes, and most of the time the racists are the more convincing.
6.67%
1 6.67%
Yes, and the racists, being right, always win.
6.67%
1 6.67%
No, I have never given fair consideration to a debate between a racist and an egalitarian.
20.00%
3 20.00%
Total 15 vote(s) 100%
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Why is racism wrong?
#1
Why is racism wrong?
Whenever I go to an atheist forum, I see a lot of good sense in atheist arguments contrary to religion. But I often see a lot of unexamined positions, unquestioned assumptions, and inferior reasoning from atheists in the areas of the forum where "other" topics are acceptable for discussion.

I've recently been examining racist arguments without taking the attitude that there just must be something factually incorrect about them. I've noticed a few things about them.

First, racists often rely far more extensively on empirically derived facts than their opponents do. That is, racists don't "just make it up" and then rantingly insist upon their narrative. Instead, they do quite a bit of research before they write.

Second, racists are usually more fair in their conclusions and in their presentations than they are usually credited for being.

Third, the opponents of racism, whom I'll call "egalitarians," are usually the ones who sound as if they were defending some sort of preconceived quasi-religious orthodoxy. Strip away their pejoratives, or ignore them, and judge the racist viewpoint in the light of its own merits, and racism seems at times to be rather convincing.

Has anyone here ever actually followed a racist vs. egalitarian debate closely? Especially one in which neither side held the privilege of writing rules of permitted speech conveniently in its own favor and then using their censorship/banning powers as means of seeming to win.
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#2
RE: Why is racism wrong?
Proof for your assertions, please. Tongue
When I was young, there was a god with infinite power protecting me. Is there anyone else who felt that way? And was sure about it? but the first time I fell in love, I was thrown down - or maybe I broke free - and I bade farewell to God and became human. Now I don't have God's protection, and I walk on the ground without wings, but I don't regret this hardship. I want to live as a person. -Arina Tanemura

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#3
RE: Why is racism wrong?
But racist arguments are based on BAD science. Race itself is not a scientifically sound concept. It is a cultural concept. That is why views of race and racial categories vary within different cultures. The closest thing that comes to racial categories in science is in biological (forensic) anthropology, which categorizes all humans into three categories: Caucasian, African, and Asian, or more offensively termed, Mongoloid. This categorization is inherently flawed, because people who are Hispanic, for example, end up being classed in totally different categories, even within the same families. It's bloody bad science.
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#4
RE: Why is racism wrong?
(August 22, 2013 at 4:07 pm)Kayenneh Wrote: Proof for your assertions, please. Tongue
But I have not, so far, made any assertions.
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#5
RE: Why is racism wrong?
(August 22, 2013 at 4:11 pm)David Sims Wrote: But I have not, so far, made any assertions.

If one is going to logically deduce your position from what you have already mentioned in your original post, it is that you seemingly have no problem with racism due to the egalitarian position.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
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#6
RE: Why is racism wrong?
(August 22, 2013 at 4:03 pm)David Sims Wrote: First, racists often rely far more extensively on empirically derived facts than their opponents do. That is, racists don't "just make it up" and then rantingly insist upon their narrative. Instead, they do quite a bit of research before they write.

Second, racists are usually more fair in their conclusions and in their presentations than they are usually credited for being.

Give me an example of this.
ronedee Wrote:Science doesn't have a good explaination for water

[Image: YAAgdMk.gif]



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#7
RE: Why is racism wrong?
(August 22, 2013 at 4:11 pm)David Sims Wrote: But I have not, so far, made any assertions.

You sure?

(August 22, 2013 at 4:03 pm)David Sims Wrote: First, racists often rely far more extensively on empirically derived facts than their opponents do. That is, racists don't "just make it up" and then rantingly insist upon their narrative. Instead, they do quite a bit of research before they write.

Second, racists are usually more fair in their conclusions and in their presentations than they are usually credited for being.

Third, the opponents of racism, whom I'll call "egalitarians," are usually the ones who sound as if they were defending some sort of preconceived quasi-religious orthodoxy. Strip away their pejoratives, or ignore them, and judge the racist viewpoint in the light of its own merits, and racism seems at times to be rather convincing.

Has anyone here ever actually followed a racist vs. egalitarian debate closely? Especially one in which neither side held the privilege of writing rules of permitted speech conveniently in its own favor and then using their censorship/banning powers as means of seeming to win.

*Bolding mine
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#8
RE: Why is racism wrong?
Fuck, insanity beat me to it.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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#9
RE: Why is racism wrong?
(August 22, 2013 at 4:18 pm)Faith No More Wrote: Fuck, insanity beat me to it.

<3 it was just too good to ignore.
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#10
RE: Why is racism wrong?
Racists, and apologists for same, can kiss my ass.

Guess I'm no egalitarian then.
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