Take the fight to them.

[freedomfromforum]

@Brian,

I wear my Dawkins T-shirt proudly. I debate theists openly. I 'take the fight' everywhere I go. Rational thought is 'the fight'. Cogent arguments are 'the fight'. Face-to-face considerate discourse is 'the fight'. The list goes on and on...
Trust me, I take 'the fight' where I go, and most frequently my opponents sulk away beaten. We will see a turn-around more surely than christians will see the return of Jesus™.

On a side note: Really, Benny and Joel? Really? Those asshats are hacks and swindlers who are performing the acts their patrons prefer. Personally, I'd sooner support the arts or education.

[kılıç_mehmet]

I wear my Dawkins T-shirt proudly

what

[Brian37]

@Brian,

I wear my Dawkins T-shirt proudly. I debate theists openly. I 'take the fight' everywhere I go. Rational thought is 'the fight'. Cogent arguments are 'the fight'. Face-to-face considerate discourse is 'the fight'. The list goes on and on...
Trust me, I take 'the fight' where I go, and most frequently my opponents sulk away beaten. We will see a turn-around more surely than christians will see the return of Jesus™.

On a side note: Really, Benny and Joel? Really? Those asshats are hacks and swindlers who are performing the acts their patrons prefer. Personally, I'd sooner support the arts or education.

AWESOME. I wish my co-workers were not so close minded, but since I cant fight there, I'll fight where I can.

---

I think it is a huge mistake to ever underestimate mass delusion. Those guys do unfortunately have power and do influence the their followers who in mass also vote.

[kılıç_mehmet]

@Brian,

I wear my Dawkins T-shirt proudly. I debate theists openly. I 'take the fight' everywhere I go. Rational thought is 'the fight'. Cogent arguments are 'the fight'. Face-to-face considerate discourse is 'the fight'. The list goes on and on...
Trust me, I take 'the fight' where I go, and most frequently my opponents sulk away beaten. We will see a turn-around more surely than christians will see the return of Jesus™.

On a side note: Really, Benny and Joel? Really? Those asshats are hacks and swindlers who are performing the acts their patrons prefer. Personally, I'd sooner support the arts or education.

AWESOME. I wish my co-workers were not so close minded, but since I cant fight there, I'll fight where I can.

I think it is a huge mistake to ever underestimate mass delusion. Those guys do unfortunately have power and do influence the their followers who in mass also vote.

Who exactly is the enemy you're fighting, and why, might I ask? What is your higher purpose, what is the cause here?

[Brian37]

AWESOME. I wish my co-workers were not so close minded, but since I cant fight there, I'll fight where I can.

I think it is a huge mistake to ever underestimate mass delusion. Those guys do unfortunately have power and do influence the their followers who in mass also vote.

Who exactly is the enemy you're fighting, and why, might I ask? What is your higher purpose, what is the cause here?

Context matters. Ultimately there is no "higher purpose". There is only the purpose of the individual during the time they live.

When gays in Iran get arrested because of religion. When Malala gets shot because of religion. When 9/11 happens because of religion, you think doing nothing is a solution?

I have had people try to fire me, not for even blasphemy or cussing, but merely upon seeing the word "atheist". I have been shouted at merely because someone saw the word "atheist". I know of people who have been kicked out of their apartments, and had their personal property destroyed. And these loving Christians you can find all sorts of threats on line.

And ask Ayaan Hersi Ali if she thinks it's ok to have a friend murdered by zealots with a knife stuck in his chest that said "you're next" because she dared to question the treatment of women.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/four-b...rs-104187/

You think Christianity is much better? My state Constitution wont allow me to serve on a jury or even be a dog catcher. There are still several states that ban atheists from holding any type of public office.

I have spent the past 3 years in a workplace full of people demanding my silence and think just simply knowing I don't believe constitutes my freedom being protected. It is still a prison I work in. That may not be the case in all places, but it certainly is the norm in the south where I live.

That is tame certainly, but having heard over the years, especially from atheist teens still living at home living in a prison themselves, fearing being kicked out, being depressed because of such, and having no outlet. i I ran into one online a couple weeks ago, and she fears her own family's reaction.

My younger sister was treated like shit when she first opened up. So that is even closer to home to me than any other story above.

What is the point? The point is to make things better for atheists long term. I would hope most atheists would want that.

[freedomfromforum]

I wear my Dawkins T-shirt proudly

what

http://store.richarddawkins.net/collections/events

I have the blue one... "RELIGION - Together we can find the cure".

No one is 'getting away with' anything - I'm outspoken.

[kılıç_mehmet]

Context matters. Ultimately there is no "higher purpose". There is only the purpose of the individual during the time they live.

Well, so your "fight" is in actually in vain. You don't have a collective higher purpose, nor an individualistic higher purpose either.
You're not really out there to archive anything, just barter empty words with people, which is what I'd expect from a person that makes such a statement.

When gays in Iran get arrested because of religion. When Malala gets shot because of religion. When 9/11 happens because of religion, you think doing nothing is a solution?

Well, what exactly is your stake in this, I know not.
They do what they do because they believe in a higher being that is above them, which gives them their laws and their reason to live. They do this for their God. And what exactly gives you the motivation in your "fight against religion"? Your fight will die with you, and you have no real set of ideals that will continue to inspire new generations to carry on the struggle.
Yes, I think there is something that needs to be done. But what you think you're doing is not a solution. It's not even noticed, like, by debating some christians in your country and wearing Dawkins t-shirts, you think that you can end all this? What do you think that you, or the "atheists" are capable of doing? As you said, you have no higher purpose, you have no set ideology nor a real manifesto, neither are you really committed in both mind and body to a certain creed, in which you devote your life, since it is ultimately folly, since it ends with you. In short, your deeds will not be heard, nor your words will be listened to.

I have had people try to fire me, not for even blasphemy or cussing, but merely upon seeing the word "atheist". I have been shouted at merely because someone saw the word "atheist". I know of people who have been kicked out of their apartments, and had their personal property destroyed. And these loving Christians you can find all sorts of threats on line.

And you think that you braved all of this in the name of atheism? I wish I could sympathize with you my friend, because I have also been stigmatized for my conviction and my ideals, I have braved the school which has tried to kick me out for simply publishing a journal, and I have gotten into fights and brawls for my ideals, I have stood firm. But I did all of these because I see a higher purpose, something that is beyond me, so even if I die for something I believe in, what I believe in will live on, someone else will take up the flag, for in our circle, names and individuals are simply a means for the fulfillment of our ideas. Where exactly do you get your conviction from?
I know, because I see anger that lingers under your words. I am betting on revenge, for revenge is perhaps the only real higher purpose that someone could have as an individual. Do you feel vengeful towards them?

And ask Ayaan Hersi Ali if she thinks it's ok to have a friend murdered by zealots with a knife stuck in his chest that said "you're next" because she dared to question the treatment of women.

I really don't have to, I don't care about him. He is not someone that is near or dear to me, nor someone who has influenced my ideas. It is not my problem. But I still can't see how it is your problem.

You think Christianity is much better?

Well, better or worse, it has no real connections in my mind as "good" or "evil". I think that religion is a personal issue, and I do not perceive it as a danger unless it bears with itself internationalist connections.
Other than that, I do not care about people's religious convictions. They are free to believe as they please.

My state Constitution wont allow me to serve on a jury or even be a dog catcher.

That's a pity. And let me ask again, you're braving all of these because....
Because? At least the people who wrote the state constitution had a vision of creating a state that is ruled by people who believe in Christianity. They had a vision. They had a higher purpose of not allowing atheists(I don't know if the same goes for people of other religions), to get there, they obviously wanted Christian morals and culture to govern the things that relate to the government. Where were you when these laws were enacted?
Nowhere, just as you're nowhere right now.

It is still a prison I work in. That may not be the case in all places, but it certainly is the norm in the south where I live.

I really don't know what really made these people howl for your blood as you said they do, but I can tell you why people are out for my blood. I am outspoken in my ideology, I take part in organisations, I go around and do propaganda. I stand out, meaning, people know and recognize me as "that guy". Which somewhat makes me believe that you did something similar in your workplace. Am I wrong?

That is tame certainly, but having heard over the years, especially from atheist teens still living at home living in a prison themselves, fearing being kicked out, being depressed because of such, and having no outlet. i I ran into one online a couple weeks ago, and she fears her own family's reaction.

Really, it only adds to my belief that anger might be the only thing that fuels you. Though I can hardly believe that people think its really that much of a big deal to be "atheist" while one can be an atheist without anyone really noticing it. It's a matter of mind and conscience. So how people like "fear" the reaction of their families is beyond me.
For example, there are atheists around here, but being atheist does not really put you at odds with society-simply because they are generally lumped with people who are non-practicing, like perhaps believers, but not really those who practice it. But if you go and say, convert to another religion, you really, really stand out, because you enter a clique that is entirely in opposition to the majority, and that might earn you the reaction of the public, but I don't know why being an atheist, which is somewhat of a neutral and rather one that has little to no effect on public life would earn such a reaction.

My younger sister was treated like shit when she first opened up. So that is even closer to home to me than any other story above.

"opened up"? It rather sounds to me as though you're making a mountain out of a molehill, both you atheists and the people you refer to that treat you bad. Like is atheism such a big deal as you feel the need to share that with everyone, like being pregnant, "Mom I'm pregnant" or "Mom I'm atheist" sounds like you people are all fucking nuts.

What is the point? The point is to make things better for atheists long term. I would hope most atheists would want that.

Again, you mean that you're concerned with the well-being of a so-called minority. And it also sounds as though as we were facing a real minority problem, and I frankly think that you're exaggerating. And again, what you think is the cure to the problem, like picking arguments with theists is going to remedy what seems to me to be a hilarious situation is really beyond me my friend. Sorry if I sounded a bit harsh.

[Brian37]

Well, so your "fight" is in actually in vain. You don't have a collective higher purpose, nor an individualistic higher purpose either.
You're not really out there to archive anything, just barter empty words with people, which is what I'd expect from a person that makes such a statement.

Ok me grasshopper you Master, have a go, project your personal wishes as to how you think atheists should do things. I forgot, we are a religion and magically you have the correct way to "be" and "do".

How about this, you don't like the way I do things. So?

[kılıç_mehmet]

Well, so your "fight" is in actually in vain. You don't have a collective higher purpose, nor an individualistic higher purpose either.
You're not really out there to archive anything, just barter empty words with people, which is what I'd expect from a person that makes such a statement.

Ok me grasshopper you Master, have a go, project your personal wishes as to how you think atheists should do things. I forgot, we are a religion and magically you have the correct way to "be" and "do".

How about this, you don't like the way I do things. So?

Well, what I'm saying is you can't do anything under the atheist identity, as its really too much of a personal thing, actually. It has no real philosophy beyond personal convictions and by that I mean, it has no other reference point beyond the individual, and it has no manifesto.
If you were a religion, things would be much easier, as you'd have a certain set of rules, and a higher purpose to pursue.

Its not that I don't like the way you do things, its just that I don't think that you're doing anything at all.
Or at least anything of value.

[Brian37]

Ok me grasshopper you Master, have a go, project your personal wishes as to how you think atheists should do things. I forgot, we are a religion and magically you have the correct way to "be" and "do".

How about this, you don't like the way I do things. So?

Well, what I'm saying is you can't do anything under the atheist identity, as its really too much of a personal thing, actually. It has no real philosophy beyond personal convictions and by that I mean, it has no other reference point beyond the individual, and it has no manifesto.
If you were a religion, things would be much easier, as you'd have a certain set of rules, and a higher purpose to pursue.

Its not that I don't like the way you do things, its just that I don't think that you're doing anything at all.
Or at least anything of value.

Ha, ok.

First off OF COURSE "atheist" isn't a philosophy, it is merely a position. What makes you think I don't know that?

Secondly when I speak out under that label, you think I stupidly think that I am saying everyone should do things the way I do, but then defy your own argument by rightfully saying I am an individual. Make up your mind, which is it?

You don't think I am doing anything at all? No, stop it, you don't like the way I am doing it, thats all.

"Value" thats code for "I refuse to admit that others are different than me and if they don't "value" the same things I do they are always wrong.

Sorry, I don't think it is ever a bad thing, no matter how small, to call out any and all absurd claims or call religion the weapon it is. We'd still think the earth was flat if no one questioned.

You simply are projecting yourself on me like a theist does trying to sell their "value".