The Problem with the Gospels

[Ace Otana]

The purpose of God

Funny, using google to answer the question.

I'm still waiting for an answer here. Also the answers in google can be countered too easily. Would be a mistake to use them, trust me on that.

[Minimalist]

A preview of Bart Ehrman's "Lost Christianities."

The variety of early xtian beliefs suggests that none of these early fuckwads had the slightest idea of what was going on. It took the church to exterminate the heretics and decide which particular line of shit they would all profess to believe.

A decision which dictates the beliefs of our resident apologists.


http://books.google.com/books?id=URdACxK...q=&f=false




Pages 2-7 are included in the preview.

[fr0d0]

Wow fr0d0... that's.... helpful :eyeroll:

Now that you're here: how about you respond to the points? ^_^

Ooh ...a trap!

The _actual point_ you mean? I did consider it given Eillonwy's plea and this is the best 3 days consideration got me..

The topics really don't interest me. Sure I'm interested in reading debate on it, Minimalist seems very knowledgeable. It's a shame Anto turned so horrible on us as he seemed to be interested in the histrionics (he studied history IIRC) and could put up some interesting counters. I have no problem as Eill does with it. Not even a little bit. I'd really try to go boil my head for you but I know in this instance your and my effort would be wasted.

The purpose of God

Funny, using google to answer the question.

I'm still waiting for an answer here. Also the answers in google can be countered too easily. Would be a mistake to use them, trust me on that.

Haha! To be honest I don't understand your question. Maybe it's your scary avatar sapping my confidence I dunno

[Violet]

The _actual point_ you mean? I did consider it given Eillonwy's plea and this is the best 3 days consideration got me..

The topics really don't interest me. Sure I'm interested in reading debate on it, Minimalist seems very knowledgeable. It's a shame Anto turned so horrible on us as he seemed to be interested in the histrionics (he studied history IIRC) and could put up some interesting counters. I have no problem as Eill does with it. Not even a little bit. I'd really try to go boil my head for you but I know in this instance your and my effort would be wasted.

Indeed, the actual point If it doesn't interest you to discuss it: I guess we'll have to wait for Arcanus for a counterpoint then

Here boy!

[Minimalist]

These books are out there for all to read....starting with Misquoting Jesus which, if you are interested, I believe I have a link to an online version. Save a few bucks unless it is in your library.

Then there is Lost Christianities and Jesus Interrupted which makes the fascinating point that seminaries have been teaching the historical-critical method of reading the bible for a long time now. Somehow, when fundie preachers graduate they forget all they learned and start telling their trailer-trash congregations that it all REAL.

[Ace Otana]

Haha! To be honest I don't understand your question. Maybe it's your scary avatar sapping my confidence I dunno

My avatar seems to scare many. I choose that avatar because I think it reflects my personality. Charming but extremely rebellious and vengeful and also very watchful.

I'll ask the question in another way. When I asked about the purpose of god I meant, "what is the purpose of his existence? Why does he exist and why would he being an all perfect being need to create anything?" Generally, I'm asking for the purpose of his existence. What is the point of gods existence? What does it all amount to? Is he devoid of any purpose or what?

Hope that clears it up for ya.

[fr0d0]

Ok

Firstly, I don't think in terms of 'existence' but rather that God just 'is'. I think that's common for most Christians. He didn't need to create anything he just 'did', because that's his nature, it's what he does. Like I like to annoy ppl too much

it's his purpose and his definition. What's the purpose of a light bulb? A: To be a light bulb.

Then purpose could be thought of as relevance and impact. Or potential impact in the case of a non believer. To me that's like choosing life. The point of God is to offer a way to choosing life. It's not the only way to skin a cat, but it's a way.

[Edwardo Piet]

If God does not exist, then by definition there is no God, so how then can God just 'be'? It does not make sense to say that God 'just is' and yet he also does not exist, that is a contradiction. So what do you actually mean I wonder, when you say that you don't like to think [of specifically Him I presume?] in terms of existence?

EvF

[fr0d0]

You wouldn't happen to be talking about evidence of God with me in open forum again would you Evie? Tut tut!

Obviously your statements are wrong Evie, or they'd make sense. I've explained that to you before so I'll see if you can figure it out on your own this time, otherwise what's the point of discussion if we learn nothing?

[Edwardo Piet]

1. I didn't mention evidence.

2. If I did I would be allowed to because you failed to respond to my last post in our debate for so long, that Adrian just closed it in the end.
Additionally: you have claimed before that I said I didn't want to continue the debate any further. But I say that I never said such a thing... and I asked if you could perhaps provide a quotation where I ever said that - because I, furthermore, never would say anything like that... I never agree to disagree unless the other person brings the whole. 'agree to disagree' notion up first. You know what I'm like.

3. My statements are 'obviously wrong'? All I am trying to understand is what you actually mean when you say God 'is' but his existence is irrelevant. By definition how can he 'be' if he does not exist? That is a contradiction.

God cannot 'be'... he cannot be a thing at all that 'just is' if he doesn't exist. For something to be something that 'just is' (or for something to be anything at all!) - it by definition... has to exist.

If God does not exist then there is no God to just be. So how does it make any sense whatsoever to say that he 'just is'? You say my statements make no sense... but all I am doing is pointing out what seems to me to be a complete contradiction in language... and so I'm trying to understand the actual meaning behind what you are at least trying (it seems?) to say...

4.

I've explained that to you before so I'll see if you can figure it out on your own this time, otherwise what's the point of discussion if we learn nothing?

Are you backing out again? I am discussing. How can you say we will learn nothing if you don't know what's round the corner? I'm happy to continue the discussion... are you?

EvF