Question on the Validity of Jesus

[themonkeyman]

Hey Folks,

I've been thinking bout this long and hard and I am wondering what the premise was for a Jesus concept in the first place.

In the Old Testament as per my previous posts God Wrestled with Jacob in Human Form. He also met him on the way to Sodom and Gomorrah.

Many say that since Jesus was born of man that is why he can bring us to God. But I wonder deeply on this aspect because Adam was created from Clay (Dust). Eve was created from Adam and possibly Clay (Dust).

Given that the First Man and First Human Biblical existed as Dust then why did god need Jesus to be born of a Human Origin why not just have him created around the age of 30?

In the bible little is taught about Jesus as a Child so this would allow accounts that he could possibly be some religious fanatic.

Another thing I dont get is why the Heck does John from Prison send a messenger to ask about Jesus validity. If memory serves me correctly John the Baptist is a cousin of Jesus on his mothers side.

Are you meaning to tell me that John never knew that Jesus was his cousin and even if he did he Certainly somehow seams to be unaware that his Cousin is God!

Back then many supersitions were around heck look at the Gnostic Gospels. I don't think it would be without merit to see that John was not preaching about Jesus in his lifetime!

Just some fanatic felt 'Enlightened' and decided to match what he did to vaguely sync with the OT and also to verbally bash it so it looses its credablity.

My other question Is::

Why did Jesus un-do things in the old testament and say that things were acceptable why did God during the first 3 Copies (Exodus) not figure out that he would end up removing half of the rules?!

[Drich]

Hey Folks,

I've been thinking bout this long and hard and I am wondering what the premise was for a Jesus concept in the first place.

In the Old Testament as per my previous posts God Wrestled with Jacob in Human Form. He also met him on the way to Sodom and Gomorrah.

Many say that since Jesus was born of man that is why he can bring us to God. But I wonder deeply on this aspect because Adam was created from Clay (Dust). Eve was created from Adam and possibly Clay (Dust).

Given that the First Man and First Human Biblical existed as Dust then why did god need Jesus to be born of a Human Origin why not just have him created around the age of 30?

Because God Created Adam and from Adam produced Eve. They sinned and 'tainted' Man's blood line with sin. They sold all who were born through them into sin as slaves to sin.

Jesus repersents one born into slavery, but broke his chains and freed all the other slaves who also want to be free from the consenquences of sin.

Another thing I dont get is why the Heck does John from Prison send a messenger to ask about Jesus validity. If memory serves me correctly John the Baptist is a cousin of Jesus on his mothers side.

Are you meaning to tell me that John never knew that Jesus was his cousin and even if he did he Certainly somehow seams to be unaware that his Cousin is God!

What are you talking about? John repeatedly announced that Jesus was God.

Back then many supersitions were around heck look at the Gnostic Gospels. I don't think it would be without merit to see that John was not preaching about Jesus in his lifetime!

You have to ignore
all four gospel accounts to believe this, Because all 4 state John the baptist acknoweledged and exhaulted Jesus as the Christ.

My other question Is::

Why did Jesus un-do things in the old testament and say that things were acceptable why did God during the first 3 Copies (Exodus) not figure out that he would end up removing half of the rules?!

He did not undo anything.

Everything is still in effect, it just that our way to righteousness is no longer by doing those things. Because we can not keep all of the commands we are guilty of breaking all of them. therefore we must seek a 'new way' to find righteousness needed to spend eternity in Heaven with God.

[Minimalist]

If you expect rationality from xtian drivel you are barking up the wrong tree, Monkey. Just look at the pile of shit Drippy just posted for an example of the mental gymnastics one has to go through!

You're better off just pissing on that tree and getting on with life without worrying about silly bible bullshit.

[Doubting Thomas]

You might as well ask why Sherlock Holmes took on Moriarty.

[Godscreated]

Hey Folks,

I've been thinking bout this long and hard and I am wondering what the premise was for a Jesus concept in the first place.

In the Old Testament as per my previous posts God Wrestled with Jacob in Human Form. He also met him on the way to Sodom and Gomorrah.

You seriously need to study the stories of the Bible before you try and make statements about them. Abraham was the one Jesus talked to on His way to Sodom and Gomorrah, if you had read the story you would have known this, you also would have realized that Jesus did not go to Sodom or Gomorrah only the angels did.

Many say that since Jesus was born of man that is why he can bring us to God. But I wonder deeply on this aspect because Adam was created from Clay (Dust). Eve was created from Adam and possibly Clay (Dust).

Given that the First Man and First Human Biblical existed as Dust then why did god need Jesus to be born of a Human Origin why not just have him created around the age of 30?

This has been explained a hundred times on here, where have you been, Jesus was born as a human, Adam was created as a human. Jesus was to experience the world and to do this He needed to grow as a human.

In the bible little is taught about Jesus as a Child so this would allow accounts that he could possibly be some religious fanatic.

Really, how? At the ripe old age of 12 He was already giving the priest more than they could understand.

Another thing I dont get is why the Heck does John from Prison send a messenger to ask about Jesus validity. If memory serves me correctly John the Baptist is a cousin of Jesus on his mothers side.

There's a lot you don't get. If you were about to die for someone wouldn't you want them to tell you everything you've heard and seen is true. It's no more than atheist ask for, right.

Are you meaning to tell me that John never knew that Jesus was his cousin and even if he did he Certainly somehow seams to be unaware that his Cousin is God!

Of coarse He knew Jesus was his cousin, I would think they played together as children. He knew if Jesus was who He claimed to be, He was God.

Back then many supersitions were around heck look at the Gnostic Gospels. I don't think it would be without merit to see that John was not preaching about Jesus in his lifetime!

You must be blind or you haven't read the scriptures, John was born for one thing, to help usher in Jesus ministry.

Just some fanatic felt 'Enlightened' and decided to match what he did to vaguely sync with the OT and also to verbally bash it so it looses its credablity.

The religious fanatics of the time were looking for a warrior in the Messiah, could be why they were causing trouble all the time (the fanatics). They are the ones who gave the Romans reason to destroy the temple, Jesus called the temple His Father's house.

My other question Is::

Why did Jesus un-do things in the old testament and say that things were acceptable why did God during the first 3 Copies (Exodus) not figure out that he would end up removing half of the rules?!

The sacrificial laws had to be keep until Christ's death and resurrection. Christ was the final atonement so there was no further need for those laws. The "Ten Commandments" and other laws of love and obedience were not undone, they are here to stay. Christ is now our salvation and the law of the OT points to our need for Him.

GC

[Esquilax]

Everything is still in effect, it just that our way to righteousness is no longer by doing those things. Because we can not keep all of the commands we are guilty of breaking all of them. therefore we must seek a 'new way' to find righteousness needed to spend eternity in Heaven with God.

So, all the old testament laws are still in effect... it's just that we no longer need to obey them? Are you... are you being serious, right now?

"Oh, this hamburger exists! It just doesn't have a bun, or patty, or sauces, or lettuce, or cheese, or..."

And this idea that we simply cannot obey all the commandments... why does that not seem like entrapment to you? Where's the justice in creating a set of laws that physically cannot be obeyed, and then punishing those who can't obey them, while setting up a loophole?

[Esquilax]

The sacrificial laws had to be keep until Christ's death and resurrection. Christ was the final atonement so there was no further need for those laws. The "Ten Commandments" and other laws of love and obedience were not undone, they are here to stay. Christ is now our salvation and the law of the OT points to our need for Him.

GC

How do you differentiate between the "laws of love," and the other ones? That's a serious question, by the way; please don't shrug it off by saying "read the bible." I want to know what you think.

[Drich]

So, all the old testament laws are still in effect... it's just that we no longer need to obey them? Are you... are you being serious, right now?

That is the core of Christianity for the last 2000 years.
mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

This section of Scripture does two things. It establishes that the OT law is still in effect, and that we need a righteousness greater than what the scribes and pharisees had by following the letter of the law.

We later find out the only way for one's righteousness to exceed that of the scribe and pharisees is through the attonement Christ offered.

"Oh, this hamburger exists! It just doesn't have a bun, or patty, or sauces, or lettuce, or cheese, or..."

It would be like the laws of graveity still exist and yet they no longer bind us to the ground.
We can over come and escape these laws using a vechical designed to overcome the laws of Graveity.
Christ provides vechical designed to over come the laws of righteousness, as none of us can obtain righteousness even through our best efforts, per the effort of the scribes and pharisees.

And this idea that we simply cannot obey all the commandments... why does that not seem like entrapment to you?

Not if we have been provided a way to escape conviction that costs us nothing.

Where's the justice in creating a set of laws that physically cannot be obeyed, and then punishing those who can't obey them

the laws were not set up for us to obey. (That is why there was animal sacrfice in the OT, and Christ in the New.) The Law was only ever designed to establish the Expressed will of God, and His righteousness or standard that is required for us to be with Him for eternity.

, while setting up a loophole?

The 'loop hole' was always apart of the plan. which means by defination it is not a loop hole.

[Bob Kelso]

I was always told, by several Christians, growing up that Jesus released Christians from adhering to Mosaic Law, but still upheld the spirit of it.
Always cited with;
Galatians 3:10-13
10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”[e] 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”[f] 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”[g] 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”

[Minimalist]

This section of Scripture does two things. It establishes that the OT law is still in effect

"Paul" seems to disagree with you, drippy.

23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

Gal. 3

I can see where he'd see the clipping of the end of your dick as a poor marketing strategy and kosher food is shitty but still....who are you to disagree with "paul?"