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Walking the a/theist line with family & friends
#1
Walking the a/theist line with family & friends
I'm still sort of feeling my way around this forum, and am wondering if there other folks like me who are lurking, because I'd love to talk to you!

I'm mostly a pretty typical North American mom I guess, except that I don't believe in any god or gods or goddesses or the like. I don't hate religious people. I am extremely dismayed at how religion can negatively shape people, and the endless bloodshed it seems to cause, but on a local, personal level (among friends and family) I've also seen how it has been the source of great comfort for people during difficult times. I believe it's misguided comfort, but I can't imagine telling someone that when they are doing their best to work through something difficult.

The example I think of most often is my MIL. She lost her husband when she was in her 40's. Then just a couple of years later her oldest son died of cancer. Then a few years ago her oldest daughter died of cancer as well. Her husband and two of her five children dead. I literally can not imagine the pain of that. Her faith (and probably more importantly) the bonds she had with her church community helped her get through each of these tragedies.

I don't understand this faith. It seems so silly to me. But it's not silly to her. It's not silly to my husband. It's an important part of their lives. I think we can love and respect people even if we disagree about some things. I would never mock them for their faith. Well, perhaps I mock them in my heart sometimes Thinking but mostly I feel sad that they live their whole lives with this delusion.

I know I mentioned in a previous post that I'm not an activist and am not and never have been interested in debating the merits of atheism/theism. I'm not a scholar. I'm not a super-duper writer. I'm really just interested in having respectful, serious discussions about the practical aspects of being an atheist in a sea of theists.

I'd really love to hear from you guys who walk the same line I do. How do you handle things like the pressure to attend Christmas Eve mass or finding mom-friends who don't offer to pray for you? (Telling them to fuck off is not an option for me)
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#2
RE: Walking the a/theist line with family & friends
Have you told your friends and family that you are an atheist?
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain

'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House

“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom

"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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#3
RE: Walking the a/theist line with family & friends
You sound like my kinda people... Although these days I'm growing much more vocal about my atheism. I truly think that religion is responsible for much of our world's misery and I'm exploring ways to nurture a social shift away from it.

I recently I told my 90 yr old Mom I was an atheist. She didn't seem to be too upset by it.... but then she doesn't really care very much about anything other than her Chihuahua.
"There's always a bigger fish."
Qui-Gon Jin (Star Wars)
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#4
RE: Walking the a/theist line with family & friends
Mama, if they are good friends, is it so hard to endure going to mass on Christmas Eve or being prayed for? I usually love going to church on Christmas Eve, all except for the one time the pastor performed his entire hour-long Christmas Eve sermon on the topic of "Atheists. Bad. Understand?" Rolleyes
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#5
RE: Walking the a/theist line with family & friends
(December 4, 2013 at 4:08 pm)atheistmama Wrote: The example I think of most often is my MIL. She lost her husband when she was in her 40's. Then just a couple of years later her oldest son died of cancer. Then a few years ago her oldest daughter died of cancer as well. Her husband and two of her five children dead. I literally can not imagine the pain of that. Her faith (and probably more importantly) the bonds she had with her church community helped her get through each of these tragedies.

It never ceases to astonish me how people can find comfort in a god that is killing their loved ones left and right.
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#6
RE: Walking the a/theist line with family & friends
They rationalize that. "God" doesn't kill them...the devil does, Ryan.

Of course, the whole thing comes unraveled when you force them to admit that their dumb-ass god created the devil. Piss poor planner, that god.
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#7
RE: Walking the a/theist line with family & friends
Bad Wolf - Some know. My husband knows but asked me long ago not to tell his mother and other family members. I did tell one of his sisters. She mostly shrugged. The others wouldn't.

As for friends... My closest friend knows. My other mommy friends are really more acquaintances. I'm not sure when or how to bring that up. People down here in North Carolina generally assume you're Christian. It's sort of weird to say, "Hi. I'm J and I'm an atheist." If someone asks me what church I go to I usually say, "I'm not a Christian, so I don't have a church." Few people go beyond that.

~~~Edited to correct a misspelling.

Oh BTW, not all christians think that the devil causes all problems. The Lutherans (in my experience) don't seem to blame things on the devil. I'm not sure how they rationalize the "bad things happen to good people" thing. I haven't asked. It seems like it would be a very difficult question. But they generally aren't big on the devil.

I will never, ever, ever understand praying for something good to happen. I am absolutely sure that everyone in my husband's family prayed as hard as they could for their dad, for their siblings. My poor SIL suffered so much at the end. It just breaks my heart. Where was god then? How do they explain that? I don't understand it. I suppose I should have an honest conversation about that with my husband at some point, but that's hard!
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#8
RE: Walking the a/theist line with family & friends
(December 4, 2013 at 11:20 pm)atheistmama Wrote: Bad Wolf - Some know. My husband knows but asked me long ago not to tell his mother and other family members. I did tell one of his sisters. She mostly shrugged. The others wouldn't.

As for friends... My closest friend knows. My other mommy friends are really more acquaintances. I'm not sure when or how to bring that up. People down here in North Carolina generally assume you're Christian. It's sort of weird to say, "Hi. I'm J and I'm an atheist." If someone asks me what church I go to I usually say, "I'm not a Christian, so I don't have a church." Few people go beyond that.

Well if your some of your friends and family know you are an atheist and are still trying to make you go to church and stuff, well....they are just being dicks. Its alright if they talk to you about it but as soon as they start trying to convert you or act like you are a Christian really, you have to put your foot down.
Also, maybe you should get to know your mommy friends better before you let them know. Let them see what a nice person you are. If they ask you about it, don't lie.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain

'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House

“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom

"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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#9
RE: Walking the a/theist line with family & friends
I have to agree with bad wolf. If they try to make you go to church knowing you're an atheist, that's the same thing as you trying to make them not go to church knowing they're christians. If they try to convert you, it's the same as you trying to make them lose faith. There's no reason you have to pretend to be someone else or be friendly just to make them comfortable when you're not.

What I usually do is, if asked, I'll say I'm not a believer then if challenged, I'll challenge them. If it's just curious questions I don't really mind, sometimes I'll elaborate and that may offend some thin skinned people, but I've never had any problems, maybe because I know so many atheists. But I have been seriously challenged about my lack of belief before, and I didn't pull any punches, fair's fair. You'd be surprised how many people don't mind defending their faith (and you'd be surprised how they just will not reach the same conclusion you reach), so if you feel like they're pushing you into a corner you can fire back. Many are willing to just say, well, have to agree to disagree. They don't really stop being your friends, you just know each other a little better now.
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#10
RE: Walking the a/theist line with family & friends
(December 4, 2013 at 4:08 pm)atheistmama Wrote: I'm still sort of feeling my way around this forum, and am wondering if there other folks like me who are lurking, because I'd love to talk to you!

I'm mostly a pretty typical North American mom I guess, except that I don't believe in any god or gods or goddesses or the like. I don't hate religious people. I am extremely dismayed at how religion can negatively shape people, and the endless bloodshed it seems to cause, but on a local, personal level (among friends and family) I've also seen how it has been the source of great comfort for people during difficult times. I believe it's misguided comfort, but I can't imagine telling someone that when they are doing their best to work through something difficult.

The example I think of most often is my MIL. She lost her husband when she was in her 40's. Then just a couple of years later her oldest son died of cancer. Then a few years ago her oldest daughter died of cancer as well. Her husband and two of her five children dead. I literally can not imagine the pain of that. Her faith (and probably more importantly) the bonds she had with her church community helped her get through each of these tragedies.

I don't understand this faith. It seems so silly to me. But it's not silly to her. It's not silly to my husband. It's an important part of their lives. I think we can love and respect people even if we disagree about some things. I would never mock them for their faith. Well, perhaps I mock them in my heart sometimes Thinking but mostly I feel sad that they live their whole lives with this delusion.

I know I mentioned in a previous post that I'm not an activist and am not and never have been interested in debating the merits of atheism/theism. I'm not a scholar. I'm not a super-duper writer. I'm really just interested in having respectful, serious discussions about the practical aspects of being an atheist in a sea of theists.

I'd really love to hear from you guys who walk the same line I do. How do you handle things like the pressure to attend Christmas Eve mass or finding mom-friends who don't offer to pray for you? (Telling them to fuck off is not an option for me)

Hello A-mom
I am new here also and have been poking around. I think a lot of people are going to relate to you.
It all depends what you have faith in. I have faith in the big bang happening 13.78b years ago. I don't have faith in Adam and Eve.
Faith did not get your Mil "through" her tragedies. Faith is usually a gauze over reality when used in a religious context. . Reality here is that we are born and we die randomly, your friend wasn't chosen for special attention. Most cancer deaths are the result of genetics, environment and lifestyle. All theoretically preventable. Her friends and her own rational thought process brought her from her perceived victimhood closer to the truth.
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