History and the use of religion by political powers

[KichigaiNeko]

Ya know LemonV, looking at this video it struck me that this area of the planet has ALWAYS been at war (using the deity card to do so) for at least 3000 years.

Be glad when they all get sick of it and just get along. like THAT is ever going to happen.

[Lemonvariable72]

Ya know LemonV, looking at this video it struck me that this area of the planet has ALWAYS been at war (using the deity card to do so) for at least 3000 years.

Be glad when they all get sick of it and just get along. like THAT is ever going to happen.

I'm not really just talking about the middle east as you have to include india and inndonesia in that as well. I'd also beg to differ and say that these areas, and the middle ast were far more stable before islam

[KichigaiNeko]

For a given value of of stable LemonV. And yes, certainly more so prior to the islamic invasions (which puts paid to the OP )

Then again, I am generalising.

[kılıç_mehmet]

If religion does not cause war then why does islam have such bloody borders

Depends on which borders you're talking about.

[Lemonvariable72]

If religion does not cause war then why does islam have such bloody borders

Depends on which borders you're talking about.

Lets see, we have india pakistan. They have terrorist attack in india like every 2nd week sometimes and kashmir is one of the most war torn places in the world, we have greece-turkey border, which was very nasty but has calmed down a bit. Israel is painfully obvious here. then we have indonesia, where they tried to commit genocide against Christians.

[ska88]

I don't think religion has anything to do with wars!! Looking through history you would find communities with several religions who live together in peace.

Wars I think are strictly for economic reasons or greedy people who use religious people to fight with them in the name of religion.. Even faithless people could be terrorists and extremists ..

An extremist would be an extremist .. despite of religion gender or race.. extremism is a personality type.

Thats my opinion .. I live in middle east I know.

I live in a muslim country my teachers were american Christians .. I know many jews who live in my country in peace .. my servant is christian .. I just let her celebrate Christmas and gave her some money to have fun.. although we have wars with america and jews and Israel. . I don't mind !!

I know the governments and Zionists are behind all the wars in the world and they don't care about us people.. they don't care about our religions faiths race or whatever.. all they care about is their power and position.

So why blaming others.. why blaming religions and innocent people for this?

Whatever you can surely say I'm wrong

[Fidel_Castronaut]

I don't think religion has anything to do with wars!! Looking through history you would find communities with several religions who live together in peace.

Wars I think are strictly for economic reasons or greedy people who use religious people to fight with them in the name of religion.. Even faithless people could be terrorists and extremists ..

An extremist would be an extremist .. despite of religion gender or race.. extremism is a personality type.

Thats my opinion .. I live in middle east I know.

I live in a muslim country my teachers were american Christians .. I know many jews who live in my country in peace .. my servant is christian .. I just let her celebrate Christmas and gave her some money to have fun.. although we have wars with america and jews and Israel. . I don't mind !!

I know the governments and Zionists are behind all the wars in the world and they don't care about us people.. they don't care about our religions faiths race or whatever.. all they care about is their power and position.

So why blaming others.. why blaming religions and innocent people for this?

Whatever you can surely say I'm wrong

It depends on how one wants to perceive history/conflicts per se.

The instrumentalist in me agrees that religion is often a smokescreen or a cover for a greater issue behind the scenes (whatever it might be).

However, as a (de)-constructivist, often original causes for conflicts are lost as generation after generation become entrenched in their otherism, and the reasons why they dislike each other morph with them.

Religion in this instance is very much a cause for conflict, equal to any political or economical difference. Indeed, if I may take your own religion, the cultural and economic aspects of Islam are tied very much to the religious structures themselves, meaning it is often very hard to discern a difference when one wages war in the name of an extreme Islamic ideology or whether it's simply because they want more money for their tribe/state/clan etc.

Truth is, even if religion per se isn't the cause for conflict, removing it at the very least as an excuse for the myriad of reasons why someone might want to harm another is surely a task all should strive for?

Take the recent murder of a solider in the UK recently by two indoctrinated fundamentalists in east London. They said on camera after butchering the guy with a meat cleaver that their actions were retribution for the west's 'transgressions' in the Middle East and Afghanistan.

Prima facie that could be enough, but what motivated them to act beyond the simple cause? It was the Quran that gave them the justification that sought, at least in their minds. Whether one disagrees with their actions (which surely all same people would), the fact that in their mind the religious aspects of their cause gave them the legitimacy to act on their political grievances lends weight to the argument that religion as a cause cannot be dismissed so easily.

[theyear12013]

Religion can exacerbate war -- or may be a manifestation of the geo-political and geographic reality of power in a given region with a given set of inputs.

Islam's behavior might be explained geographically. It is a powerful land based expansionist ideology well-suited for its geographic area: at one point uniting the arab, persian, indian worlds into a common ideology. Successive empires would pick up the banner and build an empire for their sect and family until the advent of European colonialism by sea. When the Europeans didn't also convert like the Mongols, Persians, and good chunk of Indians before them ... Islam began its slow decline as a useful political tool. Instead ever so slowly the Europeans are converting them ... and hence the intense reaction from some quarters of the Islamic world. The advent of birth control has accelerated the lack of a need for the traditional social model that Islam provided to sustain their societies. Also don't forget ... Israel's existence is prophesied as a sign of the end times in their religion and has stirred up the conspiratorial apocalyptic thinking in a chunk of society in the middle east. Also its just a physical shock to the system since this area was never an independent state -- Syria and Egypt were always united in some kind of configuration. Israel's presence is like a small island continent smashing into an Islamic landmass.

One last point -- Hinduism is not about peace any more than Islam. Please tell the thousands of Muslim human beings who die in riots in India yearly and the untouchable slave caste that Hinduism is some peace loving shit. I've seen the dehumanization of the untouchables up close ... it is worse than slavery. Their subservient look worn like an old coat, their inability to read even numbers ..... India's massive overpopulation might explain the caste based way of thinking but in the modern world ... it is a sick mentality that should go the way of the dinosaurs. Islam is bogus, but there's a reason thousands of low caste Indians convert to it.

[Minimalist]

I don't think religion has anything to do with wars!! Looking through history you would find communities with several religions who live together in peace.

A fact noted by Voltaire.

If there were only one religion in England, there would be danger of tyranny; if there were two, they would cut each other's throats; but there are thirty, and they live happily together in peace.

The trick is keeping them divided. If the religious ever unite, watch out.
The dark ages will return.

[ska88]

It depends on how one wants to perceive history/conflicts per se.

The instrumentalist in me agrees that religion is often a smokescreen or a cover for a greater issue behind the scenes (whatever it might be).

However, as a (de)-constructivist, often original causes for conflicts are lost as generation after generation become entrenched in their otherism, and the reasons why they dislike each other morph with them.

Religion in this instance is very much a cause for conflict, equal to any political or economical difference. Indeed, if I may take your own religion, the cultural and economic aspects of Islam are tied very much to the religious structures themselves, meaning it is often very hard to discern a difference when one wages war in the name of an extreme Islamic ideology or whether it's simply because they want more money for their tribe/state/clan etc.

Truth is, even if religion per se isn't the cause for conflict, removing it at the very least as an excuse for the myriad of reasons why someone might want to harm another is surely a task all should strive for?

Take the recent murder of a solider in the UK recently by two indoctrinated fundamentalists in east London. They said on camera after butchering the guy with a meat cleaver that their actions were retribution for the west's 'transgressions' in the Middle East and Afghanistan.

Prima facie that could be enough, but what motivated them to act beyond the simple cause? It was the Quran that gave them the justification that sought, at least in their minds. Whether one disagrees with their actions (which surely all same people would), the fact that in their mind the religious aspects of their cause gave them the legitimacy to act on their political grievances lends weight to the argument that religion as a cause cannot be dismissed so easily.

I 'll tell u something.. middle east governors are no more than puppets to a bigger organization.. and surely not an Islamic one.. they don't even follow simple islamic instruction .. they drink and practice fornication and lend money with interests .. they're unjust and dictators ..But still! They use religion as an excuse for their oppression against their people.

exactly like what is happening in KSA.

A killer is a killer .. you can cut food with a knife as well as u can kill with it.

Many murderers were motivated by Hollywood movies ! Does that make actors or writers bad or aggressive?

Do u see my point here?

We r fighting each other thinking that our differences including religions r the reason while the real murderers r walking free and enjoying their wealthy lives.

U can be a friend with someone who is so different ! But evil people can use that difference to let u 2 fight against each other.