"Know thyself"

[Mystic]

If God is provable to all of humanity, it is ultimately linked or provable from knowledge of the self.

There is various reasons for this. One reason is that "God" is a being we must have a relationship with, and that needs knowledge of the self. It can be said we cannot know anything about this creator even if we know there is a original creator beyond doubt, if there is no link between the human self and God.

There are some features of humanity that in my opinion point to supernatural origin.

1) Our perpetual identity

That is we are the same person no matter how much we change. Thinking deeply about this matter, you will realize, this must be due a soul existing and a creator preserving this soul identity, through time.

2) Our inheritance of actions.

Actions form a part of who we are, and this is more true the more praise and condemnation constitutes of that act. We inherit our actions.

Again a soul and a creator

3) The nature of good and evil, praise and condemnation.

This again requires a supernatural reality if we go beyond defining good and evil as simply beneficial and harmful, but go the root belief that there is light and darkness, that there is a lord of the rings or star wars type reality of good and evil, which seems to be the case.

4) Knowledge of free-will.

Having free-will is one thing, but knowing we are free, says there is something in us that is beyond physical formation, that let's us constantly know we have free-will.

These point to a supernatural origin.

However, what seems to the knowledge of the self, is the knowledge of the purpose and destination of our souls.

This where we come to know there is a link to the divine, our origins are from the light and to the light we return, we point our swords skyward and know there is a wisdom to being rooted here on earth while grow slowly above surface and towards the heavens (higher realms).

It seems we have gnostic mystic knowledge of goodness, to the extent, we know, it's inheritance is linked to higher realms of existence while being rooted to our experience on earth. That it takes higher forms and takes part of us, despite the passing of moment of time, and all this, we know a preserver and that there is a greater truth to who we are, than what we talk mundanely about ourselves or each other.

The preserver is the blessed one in the light/fire, the one by which the tree talks, and by which we are guided, and by which our actions, identity, take root in this world and will manifest in the next.

Whatever sight we have of the truth of ourselves, the sight is obviously borrowed from an objective eternal observer.

This what I believe. Feel free to disagree.

[paulpablo]

That is we are the same person no matter how much we change. Thinking deeply about this matter, you will realize, this must be due a soul existing and a creator preserving this soul identity, through time.

Before we are born we aren't a person at all, when we are born we become a person, when we die we usually rot and our bodies are eaten by other living animals or become nutrients in the soil.

So basically in this sentence you forgot to add that we are the same person from the time we are born until we die. And I would say that this is due to our brains and not our soul.

2) Our inheritance of actions.

Actions form a part of who we are, and this is more true the more praise and condemnation constitutes of that act. We inherit our actions.

Again a soul and a creator

I don't understand this.

3) The nature of good and evil, praise and condemnation.

This again requires a supernatural reality if we go beyond defining good and evil as simply beneficial and harmful, but go the root belief that there is light and darkness, that there is a lord of the rings or star wars type reality of good and evil, which seems to be the case.

Don't understand this, unless it is the horrible boring old argument that without god there can be no true morality in which case I'm too bored to respond to an argument back to this, at least for now.

4) Knowledge of free-will.

Having free-will is one thing, but knowing we are free, says there is something in us that is beyond physical formation, that let's us constantly know we have free-will.

Why does it say there is something in us beyond physical formation. We don't know we have free will a lot of people believe we don't have free will.
I don't know I have free will this could just be an illusion.

[Neo-Scholastic]

I agree with your conclusions about the features of existence that point to a higher reality. Your reasoning seems a bit sketcky to have confidence in those conclusions particularly with respect to free will. This knowledge could be illusory. Gnostic intuition about goodness could be self serving. Perpetual identity is a good observation but not easily defined.

[StoryBook]

If God is provable to all of humanity, it is ultimately linked or provable from knowledge of the self.

There is various reasons for this. One reason is that "God" is a being we must have a relationship with, and that needs knowledge of the self. It can be said we cannot know anything about this creator even if we know there is a original creator beyond doubt, if there is no link between the human self and God.

There are some features of humanity that in my opinion point to supernatural origin.

1) Our perpetual identity

That is we are the same person no matter how much we change. Thinking deeply about this matter, you will realize, this must be due a soul existing and a creator preserving this soul identity, through time.

2) Our inheritance of actions.

Actions form a part of who we are, and this is more true the more praise and condemnation constitutes of that act. We inherit our actions.

Again a soul and a creator

3) The nature of good and evil, praise and condemnation.

This again requires a supernatural reality if we go beyond defining good and evil as simply beneficial and harmful, but go the root belief that there is light and darkness, that there is a lord of the rings or star wars type reality of good and evil, which seems to be the case.

4) Knowledge of free-will.

Having free-will is one thing, but knowing we are free, says there is something in us that is beyond physical formation, that let's us constantly know we have free-will.

These point to a supernatural origin.

However, what seems to the knowledge of the self, is the knowledge of the purpose and destination of our souls.

This where we come to know there is a link to the divine, our origins are from the light and to the light we return, we point our swords skyward and know there is a wisdom to being rooted here on earth while grow slowly above surface and towards the heavens (higher realms).

It seems we have gnostic mystic knowledge of goodness, to the extent, we know, it's inheritance is linked to higher realms of existence while being rooted to our experience on earth. That it takes higher forms and takes part of us, despite the passing of moment of time, and all this, we know a preserver and that there is a greater truth to who we are, than what we talk mundanely about ourselves or each other.

The preserver is the blessed one in the light/fire, the one by which the tree talks, and by which we are guided, and by which our actions, identity, take root in this world and will manifest in the next.

Whatever sight we have of the truth of ourselves, the sight is obviously borrowed from an objective eternal observer.

This what I believe. Feel free to disagree.

none of what you said points to supernatural or god. I will reply more tomorrow. I don't have the energy right now.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I'd be more inclined to pay attention if you hadn't referred to a 'lord of the rings or star wars type reality'.

As it is, I'll accept your very kind offer to disagree.

Boru

[Mystic]

The four points I've talked about before in more details in other threads and just repeated them. The new thing I brought is the following:

However, what seems to the knowledge of the self, is the knowledge of the purpose and destination of our souls.

This where we come to know there is a link to the divine, our origins are from the light and to the light we return, we point our swords skyward and know there is a wisdom to being rooted here on earth while grow slowly above surface and towards the heavens (higher realms).

It seems we have gnostic mystic knowledge of goodness, to the extent, we know, it's inheritance is linked to higher realms of existence while being rooted to our experience on earth. That it takes higher forms and takes part of us, despite the passing of moment of time, and all this, we know a preserver and that there is a greater truth to who we are, than what we talk mundanely about ourselves or each other.

The preserver is the blessed one in the light/fire, the one by which the tree talks, and by which we are guided, and by which our actions, identity, take root in this world and will manifest in the next.

Whatever sight we have of the truth of ourselves, the sight is obviously borrowed from an objective eternal observer.

Which is linked to the four points but is ultimately not depend on them.

This was more of a food for thought, I am not too much into the mood to get into debate about these things like in the past.

I posted the first four as reminders to what I've discussed in more details and debates in the past.

[StoryBook]

If God is provable to all of humanity, it is ultimately linked or provable from knowledge of the self.

Which god?

There is various reasons for this. One reason is that "God" is a being we must have a relationship with, and that needs knowledge of the self. It can be said we cannot know anything about this creator even if we know there is a original creator beyond doubt, if there is no link between the human self and God.

??? Knowledge of my self tells me I am made of cells. I can't have a link with something that does not exist.

There are some features of humanity that in my opinion point to supernatural origin.

1) Our perpetual identity

That is we are the same person no matter how much we change. Thinking deeply about this matter, you will realize, this must be due a soul existing and a creator preserving this soul identity, through time.

Or people just don't try hard enough to change. Or because some things are so deep rooted it is difficult to change completely, but I am a different person now then I was 10 years ago. My personality has changed and is still changing.

2) Our inheritance of actions.

Actions form a part of who we are, and this is more true the more praise and condemnation constitutes of that act. We inherit our actions.

Again a soul and a creator

No, we chose based on our personality, feeling, and (hopefully) logic.

3) The nature of good and evil, praise and condemnation.

This again requires a supernatural reality if we go beyond defining good and evil as simply beneficial and harmful, but go the root belief that there is light and darkness, that there is a lord of the rings or star wars type reality of good and evil, which seems to be the case.

What? We decide good verse evil based of feelings. How we would feel...and how life experiences changed us. Your not making any sense.

4) Knowledge of free-will.

Having free-will is one thing, but knowing we are free, says there is something in us that is beyond physical formation, that let's us constantly know we have free-will.

These point to a supernatural origin.

Having free will tells us nothing and points to nothing supernatural. Besides I don't have the free will to punch someone without going to jail for it.

However, what seems to the knowledge of the self, is the knowledge of the purpose and destination of our souls.

This where we come to know there is a link to the divine, our origins are from the light and to the light we return, we point our swords skyward and know there is a wisdom to being rooted here on earth while grow slowly above surface and towards the heavens (higher realms).

It seems we have gnostic mystic knowledge of goodness, to the extent, we know, it's inheritance is linked to higher realms of existence while being rooted to our experience on earth. That it takes higher forms and takes part of us, despite the passing of moment of time, and all this, we know a preserver and that there is a greater truth to who we are, than what we talk mundanely about ourselves or each other.

The preserver is the blessed one in the light/fire, the one by which the tree talks, and by which we are guided, and by which our actions, identity, take root in this world and will manifest in the next.

Whatever sight we have of the truth of ourselves, the sight is obviously borrowed from an objective eternal observer.

This what I believe. Feel free to disagree.

Sorry, I got lost in your delusion...

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Sorry OP, all I read was a word salad that I couldn't decipher.