So what?

[Raven]

OK, God exists, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Were that to be the case, would you not say that would be a real game-changer? I mean, I've been going around living my life with the conviction that in all probability there is no God. A lot hinges upon that conviction. Like everything I got taught when I was a kid that I later came to reject. Not to mention my wife would be all “See, I told you so” at me. Deffo could do without that.

I've been figuring that we're all alone here. That all we've got is each other, and then when it's over, it's really over. No afterlife and all. Which by me is just fine. If there really were some skydaddy up there, then what? Was all that crap they taught me true? Some of it? If some, which some? It would get mighty complicated, don't you think?

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

OK, God exists, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Were that to be the case, would you not say that would be a real game-changer? I mean, I've been going around living my life with the conviction that in all probability there is no God. A lot hinges upon that conviction. Like everything I got taught when I was a kid that I later came to reject. Not to mention my wife would be all “See, I told you so” at me. Deffo could do without that.

I've been figuring that we're all alone here. That all we've got is each other, and then when it's over, it's really over. No afterlife and all. Which by me is just fine. If there really were some skydaddy up there, then what? Was all that crap they taught me true? Some of it? If some, which some? It would get mighty complicated, don't you think?

You're confusing the concept of God with the teachings of religion. God is just an all-powerful, all-knowing being who created everything. Stuff like the afterlife, God's moral code, salvation, sin, traditions etc, are made up non-sequitors that religion tacks on to the definition of God.

The question I'm posing is about the generic God. Not the Christian, Jewish, or Islamic God. If you could prove only the generic God existed (just this almighty being who created everything), then I still can't see any logical way that should affect the I way understand reality, act in reality, or come to conclusions on matters such as science, art, ethics etc. I would just be a theist living no differently than an atheist.

[Chas]

I should clarify that I'm assuming the person who knows God exists would make a *rational* choice on how to behave based on knowing that God exists. Some crazy person might realize "god exists therefore I will have a cheeseburger" but that's not a rational conclusion to have if you knew God existed.

Why? Does God hate cheeseburgers? Or only bacon cheeseburgers?

[Raven]

OK, God exists, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Were that to be the case, would you not say that would be a real game-changer? I mean, I've been going around living my life with the conviction that in all probability there is no God. A lot hinges upon that conviction. Like everything I got taught when I was a kid that I later came to reject. Not to mention my wife would be all “See, I told you so” at me. Deffo could do without that.

I've been figuring that we're all alone here. That all we've got is each other, and then when it's over, it's really over. No afterlife and all. Which by me is just fine. If there really were some skydaddy up there, then what? Was all that crap they taught me true? Some of it? If some, which some? It would get mighty complicated, don't you think?

You're confusing the concept of God with the teachings of religion. God is just an all-powerful, all-knowing being who created everything. Stuff like the afterlife, God's moral code, salvation, sin, traditions etc, are made up non-sequitors that religion tacks on to the definition of God.

The question I'm posing is about the generic God. Not the Christian, Jewish, or Islamic God. If you could prove only the generic God existed (just this almighty being who created everything), then I still can't see any logical way that should affect the I way understand reality, act in reality, or come to conclusions on matters such as science, art, ethics etc. I would just be a theist living no differently than an atheist.

OK, I hear what you're saying. Even so, if that generic deity you are positing were to exist, perhaps some, all, or none of any given religion's teachings might be true. Unless you're theoretical deity were of the deist variety, in which case he could not care what we do. It would still do a number on people's heads no matter what.

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

I'm afraid you people still aren't understanding pragmatism.

If "puppy's are not self aware feeling beings" were true i.e. puppies are no more self aware than rocks, then logically there's nothing wrong with torturing puppies. That then is not a meaningless statement because its truth has practical consequences.

Now, in the sentence "If God exists, therefore I could be logically compelled or allowed to do or not do 'x' as a result of his existence?" what is 'x'?

[pocaracas]

If God in the generic sense existed, why should anyone care? I'm studying a little about the pragmatists approach to truth claims. It says that a statement is meaningless if it doesn't make any difference on how one experiences reality or how one would make choices if that statement were known to be true.

Let's say the statement "God exists" is a true statement. So what? Why does knowing he exists matters?

You mean if a god exists, but interacts with this planet as much as what we see it interacting... aka, nothing at all... is that it?
Should we care? Well, we are curious beasts... we want to know... At least for that.

Why should we care if there are black holes?
Why should we care if dark matter is for real?
Why should we care about the Big Bang and if universal expansion will be going on forever or if it will reverse, at some point?

Provided we knew there was a god, but couldn't tell which one... for one, atheists would become scarce.... belief/faith would be rendered obsolete... it would take a few generations, though...

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

You mean if a god exists, but interacts with this planet as much as what we see it interacting... aka, nothing at all... is that it?
Should we care? Well, we are curious beasts... we want to know... At least for that.

Of course we're curious. That doesn't mean that every curious inquiry is worth the time and effort. What's the payoff for believing God exists?

Why should we care if there are black holes?
Why should we care if dark matter is for real?
Why should we care about the Big Bang and if universal expansion will be going on forever or if it will reverse, at some point?

Those are interesting questions but if your point is that conceding that "God exists" is meaningless would therefore mean that "big bang happened" is also meaningless and that conceding that would be a terrible thing, then you're just doing the appeal to consequences fallacy.

[Sejanus]

So you mean basically is deism was proven, should we act different?
If this were true, the "what is a god" would become a very important question to answer, imagine establishing contact with a deity that created the universe. Think of what we could learn.
So, yes, I believe we should act differently. Have I misunderstood pragmatism, too?

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

So you mean basically is deism was proven, should we act different?
If this were true, the "what is a god" would become a very important question to answer, imagine establishing contact with a deity that created the universe. Think of what we could learn.
So, yes, I believe we should act differently. Have I misunderstood pragmatism, too?

The problem is we have no way of knowing that God has interacted or will interact with us. We don't know which religion is right or if any of them are right. We don't know what God expects of us if he expects anything of us. We don't know why he created us. We don't know what he thinks of us. We have no way of verifying that God is communicating with us if we thought he might be (maybe it's just aliens trying to trick us with their fancy technology?).

[pocaracas]

Why should we care if there are black holes?
Why should we care if dark matter is for real?
Why should we care about the Big Bang and if universal expansion will be going on forever or if it will reverse, at some point?

Those are interesting questions but if your point is that conceding that "God exists" is meaningless would therefore mean that "big bang happened" is also meaningless and that conceding that would be a terrible thing, then you're just doing the appeal to consequences fallacy.

Quite the opposite captain. (yeah... you like the sound of that, don't you?)

We typically concede that "big bang happened" is meaningful. We even endeavor to find the most precise timing for that big bang.
If this is meaningful, then knowing that there is a god is also meaningful. Perhaps more meaningful, if that god wishes to interact with us... perhaps as meaningful, if that god is oblivious to our existence.

Now, if enter the realm of mental masturbation, then anything can be said about such an entity... Do we really want to fill up the forum's Database with all that drivel?