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Hell does NOT exist in the bible?
#11
RE: Hell does NOT exist in the bible?
(February 2, 2014 at 3:54 am)Drich Wrote: Just because I would have you ask does this somehow prevent me from asking you questions as well?

My asking you questions is not designed to shut down the conversation, but to get you to think a little differently about what is being discussed.

Rasetsu wanted physical evidence.. But how is that possible if hell is not a physical place?

The idea here is to move beyond the limits she has placed on this conversation to perhaps take in the bigger picture. In that this universe is far greater and more diverse than what we can physically account for. So why limit what one can understand by what can physically be observed?

I get what you're saying, just pointing out that this line of reasoning also robs you of your authority to make any experiential claims about what hell would be like too, given that the only things we can perceive with any degree of objectivity come via our sensory apparatus and outside confirmation.

Effectively, agreeing with what you're saying places us in a position where nobody can talk about this subject at all, since none of us know anything about the place. And yet there you are, making declarative statements about hell.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee

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#12
RE: Hell does NOT exist in the bible?
(February 2, 2014 at 9:34 am)Esquilax Wrote:
(February 2, 2014 at 3:54 am)Drich Wrote: Just because I would have you ask does this somehow prevent me from asking you questions as well?

My asking you questions is not designed to shut down the conversation, but to get you to think a little differently about what is being discussed.

Rasetsu wanted physical evidence.. But how is that possible if hell is not a physical place?

The idea here is to move beyond the limits she has placed on this conversation to perhaps take in the bigger picture. In that this universe is far greater and more diverse than what we can physically account for. So why limit what one can understand by what can physically be observed?

I get what you're saying, just pointing out that this line of reasoning also robs you of your authority to make any experiential claims about what hell would be like too, given that the only things we can perceive with any degree of objectivity come via our sensory apparatus and outside confirmation.

Effectively, agreeing with what you're saying places us in a position where nobody can talk about this subject at all, since none of us know anything about the place. And yet there you are, making declarative statements about hell.

...and that guy says I'm not a prophet. Dodgy

I'll give you an experimental claim: There's one and only one direct link between the OT and the NT concerning hell, which is where Jesus quotes Isaiah:

Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

When the trash fires burned down, the locals discovered actual worms thriving in the ash; from that observation, they merely extended the simulation to encompass eternal fire and anthropomorphised eternal torment therein.

But as to the OP, to "make Christians question their beliefs easier" is even my prophet-like superpowers; however, I can contend that "hell is not in the Bible" in terms of Holy Spirit. Acceptance of Holy Spirit is being unable to give credence to evil, therefore, how can one infused with Holy Spirit proselytize hell?

Hell is a marketing scam that upon closer examination, disappears into its own navel. Oh! Verily I say unto you. Wink
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#13
RE: Hell does NOT exist in the bible?
(February 1, 2014 at 10:11 pm)Drich Wrote: I've repeatedly brought this up, in that Hell fire is not fire. To be consumed by hell fire simply describes the emotion/reaction evoked by a being engulfed by fire.

Better tell these guys about that, Drich.

[Image: lakeofire2.gif]
Everything I needed to know about life I learned on Dagobah.
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#14
RE: Hell does NOT exist in the bible?
No one has been to hell and no one has or could prove that there is a hell.. why believe something with no prooooooof.
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#15
RE: Hell does NOT exist in the bible?
(February 2, 2014 at 9:34 am)Esquilax Wrote: I get what you're saying, just pointing out that this line of reasoning also robs you of your authority to make any experiential claims about what hell would be like too, given that the only things we can perceive with any degree of objectivity come via our sensory apparatus and outside confirmation.

Effectively, agreeing with what you're saying places us in a position where nobody can talk about this subject at all, since none of us know anything about the place. And yet there you are, making declarative statements about hell.

Why would anyone assume that I got a special pass to see hell? I have said over and over God has made a commitment to establish and maintain your belief. If he needs to take you through hell to do that, then you better hang on to something while your a/s/king.

As far as excluding anyone from this conversation my 'authority' given to me by my experience begins and ends at the gates of hell and the taste of hell fire. Everything else is based on the bible.

My disbelief of God was not based on how a loving God send someone to Hell. But rather how can their be an 'Omni max' and he be so foolish as to put 'spirits' into fire... The reasoning being a disembodied spirit will not burn. To me this was the achelies heel of Christianity and of God in general.. Never mind all the flaws in that theory brought on by the resurrection. My belief needed a resolution for this problem, so God gave me one. Simply because that is what I needed. Which is what has been offered to everyone else.

(February 2, 2014 at 12:25 pm)Rahul Wrote:
(February 1, 2014 at 10:11 pm)Drich Wrote: I've repeatedly brought this up, in that Hell fire is not fire. To be consumed by hell fire simply describes the emotion/reaction evoked by a being engulfed by fire.

Better tell these guys about that, Drich.

[Image: lakeofire2.gif]

Again fire is used because that is the closest thing we have in the way of experiencing it. Hell was beyond pitch dark, no light no fire. What is in hell is hell fire. It consumes without light or burning. It is far worse to experience hell than fire.

(February 2, 2014 at 12:49 pm)truthBtold Wrote: No one has been to hell and no one has or could prove that there is a hell.. why believe something with no prooooooof.

I know how you can find out for yourself if you like.. However it may only be a one way ride.
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#16
RE: Hell does NOT exist in the bible?
(February 2, 2014 at 1:31 pm)Drich Wrote: Again fire is used because that is the closest thing we have in the way of experiencing it. Hell was beyond pitch dark, no light no fire. What is in hell is hell fire. It consumes without light or burning. It is far worse to experience hell than fire.

Which verse explains that? Thanks!
Everything I needed to know about life I learned on Dagobah.
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#17
RE: Hell does NOT exist in the bible?
(February 2, 2014 at 1:31 pm)Drich Wrote: As far as excluding anyone from this conversation my 'authority' given to me by my experience begins and ends at the gates of hell and the taste of hell fire. Everything else is based on the bible.

... [H]ow can their be an 'Omni max' and he be so foolish as to put 'spirits' into fire... The reasoning being a disembodied spirit will not burn. ... My belief needed a resolution for this problem, so God gave me one. Simply because that is what I needed. Which is what has been offered to everyone else.

Can you read, douche bag? In my question, I explicitly excluded dreams and inference alone. Those are the two things you've given me. Perhaps you do read at a fourth grade level if, when asked to give an answer that isn't X or Y, you give me X and Y. (For those who don't know, Drich's "experience" of hell is from a dream he once had in which Jesus gave Drich a taste of hell.)

(February 1, 2014 at 10:15 pm)rasetsu Wrote: So you're claiming ... that you know from experience or someone else's experience what it is like. Not a dream, not "inferred from other things," ...


[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]
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#18
RE: Hell does NOT exist in the bible?
(February 2, 2014 at 2:53 pm)Rahul Wrote:
(February 2, 2014 at 1:31 pm)Drich Wrote: Again fire is used because that is the closest thing we have in the way of experiencing it. Hell was beyond pitch dark, no light no fire. What is in hell is hell fire. It consumes without light or burning. It is far worse to experience hell than fire.

Which verse explains that? Thanks!

Hell is describes as a bottomless pit. Here: luke 8, luke 16, rev 9, rev 17. Bottomless pits are by nature dark.

Hell has fire as per these verses. Mat 5 and 18, mark 9, James 3, Jude 1(also describes hell being a dark place.)

Fire as we know it produces light. Hell is described as a bottomless pit, and yet has fire. This fire is not the typical fire that we know because the fire we know produces light. So this fire, hell fire is different.

(February 2, 2014 at 3:05 pm)rasetsu Wrote:
(February 2, 2014 at 1:31 pm)Drich Wrote: As far as excluding anyone from this conversation my 'authority' given to me by my experience begins and ends at the gates of hell and the taste of hell fire. Everything else is based on the bible.

... [H]ow can their be an 'Omni max' and he be so foolish as to put 'spirits' into fire... The reasoning being a disembodied spirit will not burn. ... My belief needed a resolution for this problem, so God gave me one. Simply because that is what I needed. Which is what has been offered to everyone else.

Can you read, douche bag? In my question, I explicitly excluded dreams and inference alone. Those are the two things you've given me. Perhaps you do read at a fourth grade level if, when asked to give an answer that isn't X or Y, you give me X and Y. (For those who don't know, Drich's "experience" of hell is from a dream he once had in which Jesus gave Drich a taste of hell.)

(February 1, 2014 at 10:15 pm)rasetsu Wrote: So you're claiming ... that you know from experience or someone else's experience what it is like. Not a dream, not "inferred from other things," ...


If you wish to close your mind in order to make this discussion fit your picture of hell then there can not be anything to discuss. I understand why you do it, it makes the conversation safe for you. You know your version of Hell can not exist therefore you can argue from a safe area. Why else would you put such tight parameters on the subject?
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#19
RE: Hell does NOT exist in the bible?
It seems to be that theists do believe in a literal fiery hell
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
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#20
RE: Hell does NOT exist in the bible?
(February 3, 2014 at 1:45 am)Drich Wrote: Hell is describes as a bottomless pit. Here: luke 8, luke 16, rev 9, rev 17. Bottomless pits are by nature dark.

Since humanity has never encountered a bottomless pit only very deep pits on the Earth that are mistakenly called "bottomless", how can we make assumptions about their nature?

Seems like you are just making individual interpretations here based on no real factual data. Like most Christians do about many aspects of their religion.

This is why there are so many denominations.
Everything I needed to know about life I learned on Dagobah.
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