Who do you really trust?

[KUSA]

Revelation777, why don't you bring your OWN thoughts to the discussion instead of just agreeing with everything your "group" says. I've noticed you did this in other threads too.

If the bible was indeed the word of god, and a book we needed to take seriously and base our lives on, then he wouldn't have made it full of so many contradictions, and difficult to the point where you have to find out the original translation of this and that verse in order to understand what this and that meant. If it was indeed a "holy" book, there would be no need for different translations, everyone would just understand it. So, my two cents: What a load of rubbish.

Another good response.

[orangebox21]

If the bible was indeed the word of god, and a book we needed to take seriously and base our lives on, then he wouldn't have made it full of so many contradictions, and difficult to the point where you have to find out the original translation of this and that verse in order to understand what this and that meant. If it was indeed a "holy" book, there would be no need for different translations, everyone would just understand it. So, my two cents: What a load of rubbish.

Argument from ignorance (I don't understand it so it's rubbish)

I can't understand your answer here. Is it only Disciples that are immune from snake bites or all believers who are baptised?
Reading it straight it appears to be the latter.

I will quote from an earlier post:

The verb "believe" here in Greek is in the aorist tense pisteusasi, which refers to those who did believe, not those who would believe at that time or in the future.

So certainly this applies to the people Christ was speaking directly to. Certainly this passage should not be used to confirm that all believers who are baptised throughout time will be immune to snake bites.

Also when is it putting God to the test and when is it a demonstration of absolute faith?
It appears to me that the snake handlers are demonstrating their faith - not testing God. How do you know its not that?

A good question this is illustrated in the temptation of Christ. In Matthew chapter 4: 5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, 6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Here we see that Satan used scripture to tempt Jesus to "demonstrate His faith." Throw yourself down, God will protect you. And yet Jesus responds with "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." From an application stand point if I don't understand God's will in a certain area I will do at least two things. 1. Study the scripture to confirm what it says. This may require digging into the historical context and original language, etc. 2. I seek His counsel. For He has promised: "5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.(James 1:5).

Yeah, I know John 3:16. I was raised Southern Baptist. That sect of Christianity believes in once saved, always saved. The impossibility of apostasy.

You're changing the argument here. The conversation isn't about whether or not a person can lose salvation but rather about whether or not all believers will be given the "signs" spoken of in Mark 16.

Hey, that's great. I'll just fire up the computer and use the internet. Or I'll drive in my 2007 Avalon to go to a major library for research. No problem.

Did a poor dirt farmer living in the Ozarks back in 1832 have these options? Nope. Too bad for them. They were stuck with versions of the bible that god allowed to be garbled beyond trustworthiness. Sucks.

My concern here is not for the poor dirt farmer living in the Ozarks back in 1832 but rather for you. You doubt the validity of the Bible and do have the opportunity to "look into it." I have no idea if the farmer was confused or not, neither do I have the opportunity to do anything about it.

The bible should have also put in a disclaimer that a lot of things it says are BS and to not attempt in real life.

"My people perish from a lack of understanding." Hosea 4:6

[Rahul]

My concern here is not for the poor dirt farmer living in the Ozarks back in 1832 but rather for you. You doubt the validity of the Bible and do have the opportunity to "look into it." I have no idea if the farmer was confused or not, neither do I have the opportunity to do anything about it.

If he read the Bible then he was confused. Here is a simple, obvious fact that we're all pointing out to you here that is something I realized when I was still Christian.

The bible contradicts itself and also contains a lot of obviously false statements.

When we point these out you respond by saying it is mistranslated and to use 21st century options to find the true meanings behind them. The problem is that the VAST majority of Christians that have ever lived didn't have those options. They were forced to take the bible at face value for its statements.

The idea that an all powerful god that loves humanity would give us directions and then allowed it to get all fucked up and therefore fuck his followers understanding all up is beyond retarded. 99% of all those that looked to the bible for direction didn't have the luxury to research the translations. And we don't have any of the original texts do we? Or maybe just a tiny fraction if we do at all. So what does that tell us?

Even if we knew this came originally from god himself we still can't trust any of it. It's useless even if there was a god.

[pocaracas]

@Rahul, I think he did a brilliant job of spanking your hogwash, just because you're not smart enough to counter you throw out the same trash you always do.

GC

Not really. The tired old argument that the bible was mistranslated is always a failure in my eyes.

I can't believe that an all-powerful, loving god would go through all the trouble of giving us a manuscript for how to live and then sit back and watch it get changed and mutilated where it's no longer reliable.

Fucking ridiculous.

All translations, all words were and are still today divinely inspired...
At least, as much as the original version!

[Minimalist]

And if god really meant the text to say, "Hey, only you remaining disciples, not just whoever" then why does it not plainly say that?

Obviously, 'god' is a shitty writer.

[Crossless2.0]

And if god really meant the text to say, "Hey, only you remaining disciples, not just whoever" then why does it not plainly say that?

Obviously, 'god' is a shitty writer.

Or a world class prankster.

Or non-existent.

[Gooders1002]

Just found this, could be useful:



Now taking this into account, the bible has a good track record of getting shit dead wrong.