Who do you really trust?

[Gooders1002]

Christians (this is more for those who take it literally ), I have a test for you on who you trust, and its simple if i had a pill of 5 grams of Sodium Cyanide and ofter it to you to take as a test of faith would you take it?
Mans word says 100% chance of dealth! (as it 100x needed to kill you)
However God says in Mark 16:
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

So who do you really trust god who says you will be fine by believeing in him or man who says your a darwin award winner?
Just think on it.

[Darkstar]

So who do you really trust god who says you will be fine by believeing in him or man who says your a darwin award winner?
Just think on it.

I think most of them will end up saying that they aren't required to take said verse literally or something along those lines. After all, we do have another thread that (I think) references that same passage, or at least a similar one.

[orangebox21]

I do "take this verse literally" when God says in Mark 16:
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

The verb "believe" here in Greek is in the aorist tense pisteusasi, which refers to those who did believe, not those who would believe at that time or in the future.

Given that I don't fit the criteria of the "them that believe" there is no conflict between "man's word" and "God's word" in this situation. I would not take the pill as it would kill me. God's words are trustworthy.

[Angrboda]

Something tells me you didn't figure that out all by your lonesome.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVUZiLFPJhc

[Revelation777]

I do "take this verse literally" when God says in Mark 16:
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

The verb "believe" here in Greek is in the aorist tense pisteusasi, which refers to those who did believe, not those who would believe at that time or in the future.

Given that I don't fit the criteria of the "them that believe" there is no conflict between "man's word" and "God's word" in this situation. I would not take the pill as it would kill me. God's words are trustworthy.

This is a great post! Well done.

[Drich]

Christians (this is more for those who take it literally ), I have a test for you on who you trust, and its simple if i had a pill of 5 grams of Sodium Cyanide and ofter it to you to take as a test of faith would you take it?
Mans word says 100% chance of dealth! (as it 100x needed to kill you)
However God says in Mark 16:
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

So who do you really trust god who says you will be fine by believeing in him or man who says your a darwin award winner?
Just think on it.

Maybe you should start at verse 14 and look to whom Jesus was directing his comments. This was not a open forum, He was only speaking to the remaining 11 disciples.

[Revelation777]

Christians (this is more for those who take it literally ), I have a test for you on who you trust, and its simple if i had a pill of 5 grams of Sodium Cyanide and ofter it to you to take as a test of faith would you take it?
Mans word says 100% chance of dealth! (as it 100x needed to kill you)
However God says in Mark 16:
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

So who do you really trust god who says you will be fine by believeing in him or man who says your a darwin award winner?
Just think on it.

Maybe you should start at verse 14 and look to whom Jesus was directing his comments. This was not a open forum, He was only speaking to the remaining 11 disciples.

Another good response

[Rahul]

Ok.

14 Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.

15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God. 20 Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved"

Then it is immediately followed by "those who believe".

So the qualities of being "saved", "drive out demons", "speak in new tongues", etc. are all traits of those who "believe and is baptized".

More specifically whoever believes and is baptized.

So if only the remaining disciples have these abilities, if god is only meaning to say, "the remaining disciples who believe and are baptized" will have these qualities, then they also only have the quality of being saved as well. Everyone else? Not so much. By your own admission.

And if god really meant the text to say, "Hey, only you remaining disciples, not just whoever" then why does it not plainly say that?

Because it was mistranslated? That warrants a failure in my book. Immediate reason not to trust anything the bible says.

Because it was worded tricky? A god that uses trick questions/statements to determine whether you burn in eternal torment for eternity or paradise? Immediate reason not to trust anything the bible says.

‘Snake Salvation’ pastor from Kentucky dies from snake bite
The Associated Press
First Published Feb 17 2014 09:40 am • Last Updated Feb 17 2014 09:45 am

GOD: Haha! Tricked you! You should have discussed what I really meant! Sucker!

Is god love? Does he love us? Or does he possess qualities, that if you encountered it in another human, you would immediately denounce them as being a depraved, evil, sick, SOB? Immediate reason not to trust anything the bible says.

Or are you only doing mental gymnastics to make sense of this tripe?

Oh wait, yeah that's what you're doing.

[max-greece]

Ok.

14 Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.

15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God. 20 Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved"

Then it is immediately followed by "those who believe".

So the qualities of being "saved", "drive out demons", "speak in new tongues", etc. are all traits of those who "believe and is baptized".

More specifically whoever believes and is baptized.

So if only the remaining disciples have these abilities, if god is only meaning to say, "the remaining disciples who believe and are baptized" will have these qualities, then they also only have the quality of being saved as well. Everyone else? Not so much. By your own admission.

And if god really meant the text to say, "Hey, only you remaining disciples, not just whoever" then why does it not plainly say that?

Because it was mistranslated? That warrants a failure in my book. Immediate reason not to trust anything the bible says.

Because it was worded tricky? A god that uses trick questions/statements to determine whether you burn in eternal torment for eternity or paradise? Immediate reason not to trust anything the bible says.

‘Snake Salvation’ pastor from Kentucky dies from snake bite
The Associated Press
First Published Feb 17 2014 09:40 am • Last Updated Feb 17 2014 09:45 am

GOD: Haha! Tricked you! You should have discussed what I really meant! Sucker!

Is god love? Does he love us? Or does he possess qualities, that if you encountered it in another human, you would immediately denounce them as being a depraved, evil, sick, SOB? Immediate reason not to trust anything the bible says.

Or are you only doing mental gymnastics to make sense of this tripe?

Oh wait, yeah that's what you're doing.

Brilliant rebuttal.

Kudos!

[orangebox21]

Ok.

14 Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.

15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God. 20 Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved"

Then it is immediately followed by "those who believe".

So the qualities of being "saved", "drive out demons", "speak in new tongues", etc. are all traits of those who "believe and is baptized".

More specifically whoever believes and is baptized.

"In verse 16 the word "believes" is an aorist participle referring to one who has believed at some time in the past. Also baptistries, translated "is baptized," is an aorist participle but in the passive voice. This form refers to an act of outward obedience, in this case, baptism. Therefore, the translation should be, "He who believed and who was baptized shall be saved." (Key Word Study Bible KJV. AMG Publishers, pg 1259)

So if only the remaining disciples have these abilities, if god is only meaning to say, "the remaining disciples who believe and are baptized" will have these qualities, then they also only have the quality of being saved as well. Everyone else? Not so much. By your own admission.

That would be true if the only verses in the Bible that deal with the issue of "belief" and "being saved" was Mark 16:16-18. For example John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotton Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life." Here the verb believeth is in the present participle which expresses continuous or repeated action, without implying anything about the time of the action (in this case the belief). So all who believe in the past, in the present, and in the future will be saved.

And if god really meant the text to say, "Hey, only you remaining disciples, not just whoever" then why does it not plainly say that?

It does. Well not exactly as you've stated.

Because it was mistranslated? That warrants a failure in my book. Immediate reason not to trust anything the bible says.

That's a fallacy of composition/division. Furthermore the presumed failure would be on the translator not on the Bible. We have over 25,000 partial and complete manuscripts of the New Testament. If you have a question or concern over the proper "translation" of a given verse the resources are there for you to verify.

A god that uses trick questions/statements to determine whether you burn in eternal torment for eternity or paradise? Immediate reason not to trust anything the bible says.

Begging the question. God does not use trick questions/statements to determine whether a person suffers hell or is justified to glory in heaven. All who believe will be saved, those that don't will be damned.

‘Snake Salvation’ pastor from Kentucky dies from snake bite
The Associated Press
First Published Feb 17 2014 09:40 am • Last Updated Feb 17 2014 09:45 am

GOD: Haha! Tricked you! You should have discussed what I really meant! Sucker!

It is written, "You shall not put the Lord your God to the test." It is also written, "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man."

Is god love? Does he love us? Or does he possess qualities, that if you encountered it in another human, you would immediately denounce them as being a depraved, evil, sick, SOB? Immediate reason not to trust anything the bible says.

Yes. Yes. Either-Or fallacy and begging the question. Not a logical conclusion.