Deepak Chopra attacks Skepticism

[Autumnlicious]

In addition, in Law there is the concept of a crime of passion; a crime that is committed in the heat of the moment, wallowed in intense emotion.

Mitigating circumstances must be considered. Unless you favor an eye for an eye style of law, a style that would leave the whole world blind.

[Pippy]

It is possible that big Pharma is profiteering, and if so it is more destructive than most any other corporate interest group.

I disagree with the drugging of children, and with the making of aspects of human life into a mental disorder. Giving someone mood altering drugs because they are not ecstatic all the time makes depression a sickness, where I think it is part of life. High level depression and anxiety can be a problem, but not everyday stress...

Then there is the point I also made about the failure to constructively solve the problem that is endemic in the industry. That these drug companies don't ask what it is that makes children hyperactive, they just drug them to treat the symptoms, thereby making a lifelong client.

You can try to make it sound like I am accusing you guys of saying that they should not be liable for criminal activity, and call it a traw man, but that in itslef would be a straw man.

Please, debate whether or not the Pharma industry is exhibiting constructive problem solving or not. Please debate whether the long list of companies in the article are being sued, mostly for offering medication for illnesses it was not tested for. Please debate whether on not Baxter did have it's two recent "accidents", and whether the media should have told us, and the legislation should have done something.

Or just write little farts of rhetoric, about straw men and eyes for eyes.

But then don't pretend I'm losing this argument.

-Pip

[downbeatplumb]

It is possible that big Pharma is profiteering, and if so it is more destructive than most any other corporate interest group.

I disagree with the drugging of children, and with the making of aspects of human life into a mental disorder. Giving someone mood altering drugs because they are not ecstatic all the time makes depression a sickness, where I think it is part of life. High level depression and anxiety can be a problem, but not everyday stress...

Then there is the point I also made about the failure to constructively solve the problem that is endemic in the industry. That these drug companies don't ask what it is that makes children hyperactive, they just drug them to treat the symptoms, thereby making a lifelong client.

You can try to make it sound like I am accusing you guys of saying that they should not be liable for criminal activity, and call it a traw man, but that in itslef would be a straw man.

Please, debate whether or not the Pharma industry is exhibiting constructive problem solving or not. Please debate whether the long list of companies in the article are being sued, mostly for offering medication for illnesses it was not tested for. Please debate whether on not Baxter did have it's two recent "accidents", and whether the media should have told us, and the legislation should have done something.

Or just write little farts of rhetoric, about straw men and eyes for eyes.

But then don't pretend I'm losing this argument.

-Pip

Pippy you need to take a chill pill.

You are indeed losing this arguement.

You state that drugs are bad.

Drugs are currently keeping someone I care about deeply alive.

I have personaly taken many courses of antibiotics if I hadnt then I could have died on many occasions.

I've had surgery on a bone that wouldn't heal and was thankful for the drug that enabled me to sleep through the procedure.

In short drugs arent bad. Some people are bad others are incompetent and others dont have all the facts, but dont damn a whole industry for those few.

The problem with big Pharma is the grip it has on the American health care system, (the most expensive and unfair system in the developed world). That is where your ranting should be directed not at the drugs themselves.

[Pippy]

It's not at the drugs themselves, I am ranting against the concepts and ideologies that they modem medical industry presents, and the lack of constructive problem solving.

I don't blame the drugs, I blame how they are used. There are goods for modern medicine, sure. But to look only at the goods and ignore the bad is half-hearted and dishonest. I am happy to admit that insulin is useful and helpful... But mood altering drugs for these brand new mental disorders, not so much.

All I am trying to say is that there are problems. It is not all problem, but it's part of it...

And yes, drugs are bad in the sense that recreational drugs cause damage and represent weakness on the part of the user... Mood altering drugs are bad because they don't fix whats wrong, and in most cases make more symptoms to then be medicated themselves. Insulin, aspirin, yeah pretty helpful.

Sigh, never mind.
-Pip

[theVOID]

Simple fact is pippy, these mood altering drugs are more often than not the only available option for people with severe emotional or hyperactive disorders - it's the only thing that allows them to live comfortably within society, which is most often what they want. People who cannot fit in (not chose not to) because of various mental disorders often become extremely depressed, lonely and isolated and turn to the medication because it gets them back into the world and interacting with people, which is what they want - yes the medication does present negative side effects in a percentage of the individuals but it is often still preferred by them to going back to an isolated and socially incompatible state of mind.

As for your stance on recreational drugs, you might want to rethink that next time you get in your car - you would have just put yourself in a statistically far far more life threatening position than i would reach through an entire life time of recreational drug use - and that would be including all recreational drugs, including the addictive ones like Cocaine and Heroin that i refuse to touch. My LSD, Psilocybin and Cannabis are all non addictive (read, non addictive ≠ non habit forming) and extremely safe for educated use, even more so than alcohol which for some bizarre reason is often not considered a drug by the people who use it - that to me seems like denial And denial is much more unhealthy than a good trip of cid.

[Edwardo Piet]

I've never done any 'recreational' drugs. I am on 800mg of Lithium a night though lol.

EvF

[Pippy]

That's terrible EvF, is it some kind of BiPolarism? How do you like the meds?

Recreational drugs are on addictive in the sense that you might not be able to prvoe a physical dependency, but that is not to say they are as safe a raindrops.

I also enjoy drugs in the right situation, but I had to get through the whole addict ting first, and I learned a thing or two about drugs. It is like Medicine, it is a failure of constructive problem solving. Why do I get high? Because it is interesting. Why isn't life itself interesting enough? Because I get high (or because I can)...

I've done every recreational drug, never been on medication beyond my 2 months of Ritalin as a child. That was a worse experience than most of the rest.

But as someone who had drug abuse cause problems, and watched a lot of people completley fail to function or cope, I can't support drugs. The right answer is the man up and be sober.
I think I would be one of those people that you say "need drugs to function in society", I have mental and emotional disorders, I have kind of a difficult life, sure... But I choose to live the life I was given, and think that I am better off trying to deal with my problems instead or medicating the symptoms forever. So what my brains has holes in it, that just means I have to work harder than the rest, not that I have an excuse to lie about.

Sigh, drugs,
-Pip

[theVOID]

Recreational drugs are on addictive in the sense that you might not be able to prvoe a physical dependency, but that is not to say they are as safe a raindrops.

Nothing is 'as safe as raindrops', not the car you drive or the house you live in or the food you eat, all of which are statistically more dangerous than LSD funnily enough. As far as recreational pursuits go such as mountain biking, hiking, kayaking etc, they all are statistically more dangerous than LSD.

I also enjoy drugs in the right situation, but I had to get through the whole addict ting first, and I learned a thing or two about drugs. It is like Medicine, it is a failure of constructive problem solving. Why do I get high? Because it is interesting. Why isn't life itself interesting enough? Because I get high (or because I can)...

You shouldn't have taken addictive drugs, simple as that.

Your logic is also bullshit, for we could turn that on any pursuits that you might undertake. Why do you watch movies? Is life not interesting enough? What about books? Need fantasy to escape reality? Absolutely not - simple fact is drugs, movies, books etc are complimentary to normal life, they are not mutually exclusive.

I've done every recreational drug, never been on medication beyond my 2 months of Ritalin as a child. That was a worse experience than most of the rest.

Sounds like you probably didn't need it - woe are the diagnosticians yeah? Then again - they do more harm than good.

But as someone who had drug abuse cause problems, and watched a lot of people completley fail to function or cope, I can't support drugs. The right answer is the man up and be sober.

You saw a lot of weak willed people engage in escapism - it happens to people regardless of drug use. If you are a sensible and thoughtful person and educate yourself on responsible use then you can't go wrong. I have dozens of friends who partake in drug use and very few have ever had a problem - the ones who did were almost unanimously because they chose an addictive drug like barbiturates, opiates or benzos without knowing that consequences, they didn't do the research - but to be fair that would be no different to someone jumping in a car without lessons or knowing the rules of the road. It's the taboo attitude of society towards drugs that causes problems, education about these things is squashed quite stupidly - Very very few people know that their common codeine pain killers are highly addictive being case and point.

I think an ideal situation would be to sell non-addictive drugs at pharmacies for recreational use and simply require a potential user to take a test for certification that makes sure they have the appropriate knowledge to deal with their experience, e.g how to calm yourself down should an acid trip get messy - what doses are appropriate etc.

I think I would be one of those people that you say "need drugs to function in society", I have mental and emotional disorders, I have kind of a difficult life, sure... But I choose to live the life I was given, and think that I am better off trying to deal with my problems instead or medicating the symptoms forever. So what my brains has holes in it, that just means I have to work harder than the rest, not that I have an excuse to lie about.

Of course it's your choice whether or not you want to be integrated into society or do things in the way you naturally do - most people chose the former and would happily take a drug to better fit in - call it humanities social instincts if you will.

[Edwardo Piet]

That's terrible EvF, is it some kind of BiPolarism? How do you like the meds?

It's not too bad. Although I dunno if I'd feel any freeer without them. So long as I don't stay on them forever.

I just went completely nuts for 8 weeks back in early 2007... and that's enough to be on these meds for at least over 3 years. It will be 3 years by March next year.

Even if I do not need them anymore, my body (and especially brain) is dependent on them to it will take months at a time just to reduce the meds one step.

I had a manic episode for 8 weeks, if I was to ever be like it again then I am very likely to have Bi-Polar. If I am never like it again it may have just been a 'one off' due to extreme stress and many other factors such as sleep deprivation after 16 hours a day playing internet gaming and other factors...

EvF