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RE: Christians, would you kill for God?
February 25, 2014 at 8:24 pm
(This post was last modified: February 25, 2014 at 8:26 pm by Mudhammam.)
(February 25, 2014 at 8:18 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: A perfectly just directive cannot logically be unjust.
Yes, of course, and if the directives are unjust (which I think killing children is, though I know that call is above your pay-grade), then logically the director (in this case the Christian God(s)--Father, Son, and Ghost--is/are not perfect.
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
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RE: Christians, would you kill for God?
February 25, 2014 at 8:41 pm
(February 25, 2014 at 8:18 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: A perfectly just directive cannot logically be unjust.
How do you know that the Christian god is a perfect judge, making perfect directives?
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Christians, would you kill for God?
February 25, 2014 at 9:13 pm
(February 25, 2014 at 8:41 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: (February 25, 2014 at 8:18 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: A perfectly just directive cannot logically be unjust.
How do you know that the Christian god is a perfect judge, making perfect directives?
It logically follows his other attributes
But that's another story for another day. Goodnight children! Sweet dreams 
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RE: Christians, would you kill for God?
February 25, 2014 at 9:57 pm
(February 25, 2014 at 9:13 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: (February 25, 2014 at 8:41 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: How do you know that the Christian god is a perfect judge, making perfect directives?
It logically follows his other attributes
But that's another story for another day. Goodnight children! Sweet dreams
Yes, just not his actions. 
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
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RE: Christians, would you kill for God?
February 25, 2014 at 10:37 pm
(February 25, 2014 at 7:28 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: (February 25, 2014 at 7:18 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: I'd like an explanation for your claim that killing children is justifiable.
Go.
A perfect judge can make that call.
'Might makes right' is perfect justice, if you are an animal or a Christian. It's a subtle distinction, I know.
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RE: Christians, would you kill for God?
February 26, 2014 at 3:43 am
(This post was last modified: February 26, 2014 at 3:43 am by fr0d0.)
(February 25, 2014 at 9:57 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Yes, just not his actions in my fantasies.
Fixed that for you 
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RE: Christians, would you kill for God?
February 26, 2014 at 3:48 am
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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RE: Christians, would you kill for God?
February 26, 2014 at 4:20 am
(February 25, 2014 at 4:20 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: I recently had a conversation with a Christian over the atrocious morality attributed to God in the Bible. He who told me: "Let me get something straight. I wouldn't kill anybody if I felt the inkling that maybe God wants me to kill them. That's crazy. If I literally saw God and he audibly spoke to me and proved it was him. I'd be crazy not to do what he said." While I commend his efforts as a Christian seeking to live consistently with biblical morality, I had to point out the sickening truth to this confused soul: "So you would murder someone if you thought god genuinely told you to? Well guess what? So do a LOT of people who ACTUALLY DO murder people because they think God told them."
Given that Christians don't actually believe murder is itself wrong (just read the Bible-we're all sinners deserving of death and God is entitled to instruct people to kill others) but only that whatever God tells them is wrong is actually wrong, my question is... Would you, like this other lost Christian, murder if you thought God was instructing you to do so? Would you be a "hero of faith," like Jephthah who murdered his own daughter out of commitment to the Lord? Or would you, as I have to believe I would, face God's wrath and stand up for the principle that human life is valuable and to be appreciated, and disobey God?
Earlier this month a guy in Nigeria padlocked his four year-old son's jaw closed and tortured him to death. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...geria.html
The story doesn't give the guy's religion but since both the Bible and the Koran tell their followers to kill witches it really doesn't matter.
The guy says that his son was a "child of evil" who had caused him a long period of bad luck. So he did as his favorite deity said and killed the alleged witch.
The bottom line is that Jewish and Arabian religious fairy tales are not the best moral guides to use in the 21st Century. It's time to toss those imaginary deities into the trash can along with all of the other thousands of dead gods and stop believing in dangerous superstitions.
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RE: Christians, would you kill for God?
February 26, 2014 at 4:31 am
(This post was last modified: February 26, 2014 at 4:31 am by fr0d0.)
(February 26, 2014 at 3:48 am)Esquilax Wrote: Now you just have to go through and fix the bible to match the quote you just "fixed" 
No one has substantiated any objection successfully, yet you, so adamant that we shouldn't judge without empirical data, are willing to make an exception in this instance.
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RE: Christians, would you kill for God?
February 26, 2014 at 5:15 am
(February 26, 2014 at 4:31 am)fr0d0 Wrote: No one has substantiated any objection successfully, yet you, so adamant that we shouldn't judge without empirical data, are willing to make an exception in this instance.
Can a guy not assess the actions of a fictional character, now?
The point is that the christian god's actions are laid out in the bible, and that many of those actions are demonstrably immoral. In order for you to find him good, therefore, you must either be ignoring those actions, willfully disregarding them, or employing some form of special exemption in order to maintain your claim that god, as described in the only source you have for his existence, is morally good.
If it's the latterest case, jeez, that's close to moral relativism.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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