Sad christian brainwashing.

[*Deidre*]

If that were in fact true, that Christianty was based on actual historical facts and not hearsay and religious mythology, I'd still be a Christian.

On another note, when/if you ever set up a debate thread, and we do end up officially debating...I will use the Bible, to appease you, to show YOU how it contradicts the religion of Christianity. If you look back in the NT, Jesus was rather explicit that he didn't want to be equated to 'God,' nor did he appreciate religion, as a set of rituals and hoopla. He embraced his Jewish roots, and followed the Jewish customs of the time, but if you ask me, he was a Socialist (in the true sense of the word not what it's morphed into, today) and he was against organized religion. So, for the sake of 'using' the Bible as a resource, I will, to show you how I think the 'early church fathers' in their attempt to add to the Jesus story more than needed to be done (the story as we know it, not as it might have been), spawned a religion, against Jesus' very own directive.

Something about me: I didn't depart from Christianity (and not pursue any other religions) solely based on the fact that it's not based on facts, but I left it because the very story of Jesus, should he have actually lived, is not the true story. If Jesus truly existed, I don't believe that he wanted a religion built around him. He speaks out against ''religion'' in a variety of ways, throughout the NT.

That is mainly why I left Christianity, because I think that the early church fathers lied about who Jesus was, and that is why I started examining other parts of the Bible, such as Genesis, etc. I thought to myself, hmmm, if they lied about the NT, then what else might be a lie? Turns out, the whole fucking story is a lie. From start to finish.

My disinterest to ever puruse any other religion ever again, is due to the fact that Christianity being the lie that it is, is not unlike other religions, that are mere man made 'inventions' to control the masses. The Abrahamic faiths in particular, but every culture has a dominant 'religion' or set of beliefs at its core. Religion becomes a way of life and a mindset, even part of the government in some countries. All of them, are built on man's interpretation of what he cannot explain on his own, yet. Why are we not comfortable with simply saying 'I don't know,' when confronted with the 'mysteries' of life. 'God did it,' seems like the 'go to' phrase, for many people who wish to explain life in a nice, neat way. It's ok to say...'I don't know.'

I left Christianity mainly because I believe it was constructed in order to control and deceive people. The Bible isn't an innocent book of folklore, designed to provide a moral code 'to the world.' It is a book of deception. And I intend to prove it, plainly, when we debate. If a god exists, you will not find him/it in the Bible ''story.'' And, this is how I came to be Agnostic.

And for the record, I like many ''ex'' Christians, didn't leave behind my faith, easily, or take leaving it, lightly. But, the evidence against the credibility and even morality of Christianity, was too staggering for me to ignore. I was heartbroken, to be honest, to know that I 'celebrated' a set of lies for so long. That needs to be said because I believe that Atheists/Agnostics are thought of as being smug and quick to look at religion as ''irrational.'' It wasn't a quick thing for me, but rather a slow awakening to truth, and realizing that I needed to follow real truth, and not the truth that I was indoctrinated to believe, since I was a child.

It makes me sad knowing what I know now. Sometimes, ignorance is better. :/

It happened the same way with me, so I hear you.

(((hugs you)))

[DarkHorse]

It happened the same way with me, so I hear you.

(((hugs you)))

Thanks Deidre!

[Mudhammam]

This is one of those rare cases in which I fully support whatever delusions people wish to tell themselves to get by. Good for her for embracing it.

[Brakeman]

This is one of those rare cases in which I fully support whatever delusions people wish to tell themselves to get by. Good for her for embracing it.

Is this just your knee jerk reaction, or did you really think about the medical implications?

So it doesn't bother you that she has been brainwashed to "like" her disease?
Would it be ok to brainwash her into suicide like the heaven's gate nuts as long as she can speak well before the last day?

The brainwashing is the problem, not the poor girl. Her brainwashing to "like" having a skeletal face and damaged eyesight will probably prevent her from seeking the improvements and care that modern medicine and science can provide for her.

But hey, I guess you don't care if kids don't get medical care because of their god brainwashing... it doesn't bother you!

So do you support the kids "delusions" that cause them to shun western medicine when they have diabetes too? Is brainwashing kids to believe that it's all in god's plan and that they should embrace their disabilities as a gift from god and not try to overcome them with the help of science and modern medicine a good thing to you?

[Mudhammam]

This is one of those rare cases in which I fully support whatever delusions people wish to tell themselves to get by. Good for her for embracing it.

Is this just your knee jerk reaction, or did you really think about the medical implications?

So it doesn't bother you that she has been brainwashed to "like" her disease?
Would it be ok to brainwash her into suicide like the heaven's gate nuts as long as she can speak well before the last day?

The brainwashing is the problem, not the poor girl. Her brainwashing to "like" having a skeletal face and damaged eyesight will probably prevent her from seeking the improvements and care that modern medicine and science can provide for her.

But hey, I guess you don't care if kids don't get medical care because of their god brainwashing... it doesn't bother you!

So do you support the kids "delusions" that cause them to shun western medicine when they have diabetes too? Is brainwashing kids to believe that it's all in god's plan and that they should embrace their disabilities as a gift from god and not try to overcome them with the help of science and modern medicine a good thing to you?

What evidence do you have to suggest that her faith has prevented her from seeking out the best medical treatment available?

[Brakeman]

What evidence do you have to suggest that her faith has prevented her from seeking out the best medical treatment available?

Ah, you don't wish to answer my questions as a blanket statement on par with "I fully support whatever delusions people wish to tell themselves to get by." but instead now you want the particulars of this one case?

Why do you think that someone who believes that they received a gift from god would want to diminish it with plastic surgery, unless you doubt their veracity?

When I was that age my eye doctor had offered to tattoo my blind eye so that I wouldn’t have to feel uncomfortable about it being a different color from my seeing eye. For a little while, I thought about it… maybe this would be the start to solving my problems.

Luckily, after talking with my friends and my family I realized that it probably wasn’t the best idea for me. I’m so glad I didn’t, because I think having two different-colored eyes is so cool!

When people say they support other's religious delusions as long as it "doesn't hurt anyone" is a fine statement, but if you start looking critically at all the aspects of a believer you see losses of money, opportunity, relationships, and health.

[Mudhammam]

Ah, you don't wish to answer my questions as a blanket statement on par with "I fully support whatever delusions people wish to tell themselves to get by." but instead now you want the particulars of this one case?

Well I'm certainly not jumping to assumptions such as "her faith has caused her to disavow modern medicine." If that were the issue, of course I'd object to it. But so far as I can tell, if her faith merely gives her the delusion that she was created uniquely special and with a purpose, and this motivates her to share her experiences with others in hopes of helping them cope with their own incurable conditions, I don't really have a problem with it. That said, I've never heard her speak so I can't judge how helpful I think the content is but from the facts you've presented, that she's a Roman Catholic and has an incurable rare medical condition and relies on her delusion to cope, I don't see an issue.

Why do you think that someone who believes that they received a gift from god would want to diminish it with plastic surgery, unless you doubt their veracity?

Why are you asking me what their intentions and beliefs on that are?

When I was that age my eye doctor had offered to tattoo my blind eye so that I wouldn’t have to feel uncomfortable about it being a different color from my seeing eye. For a little while, I thought about it… maybe this would be the start to solving my problems.

Luckily, after talking with my friends and my family I realized that it probably wasn’t the best idea for me. I’m so glad I didn’t, because I think having two different-colored eyes is so cool!

When people say they support other's religious delusions as long as it "doesn't hurt anyone" is a fine statement, but if you start looking critically at all the aspects of a believer you see losses of money, opportunity, relationships, and health.

Wow. What a blanket statement that you've offered no statistical evidence for. I'm willing to say that faith itself is always potentially dangerous but that doesn't make every single person's faith a danger to themselves or everyone else.

[Faith No More]

I think this is just a religious twist on the basic human coping mechanism of finding the benefit in negative and painful experiences. I've seen some things that were extremely painful and nearly destroyed me, but I've often found myself being thankful for the person I have become due to those experiences. If I got to do life over again with the ability to change things, of course I would eliminate those painful experiences, but I cannot deny that they have been beneficial in some respects. I embrace those benefits to help me cope with those experiences, and I think this is what this woman is doing, only she is doing it in a religious manner.

Also, I have seen no evidence of brainwashing.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

One does not have to believe in the inerrancy of scripture to be a Christian. I do not know where you got that from.

Well allow me to whack that down for you. If the bible contains errors, then the writers of the bible lied about it being god's word written by the divine guidance of the holy ghost, as instead it would be simply man's story about god, without any divine information. If the bible has errors then the story given to the writers by the holy spirit has errors, and if you claim that the holy spirit makes errors, then the holy spirit isn't of god quality as is the basis of the whole con.

If god makes mistakes, how in the hell did he ever become god?

I saw the new religious movie "300 Rise of an Empire" the other day. It's about the Persian emperor king Xerxes (known in the Bible as Ahasuerus). Anyway, in the movie he actually becomes a god. In the Bible he ruled from India to Ethiopia. The movie is concerned about his campaign against the Greeks. For all intents and purposes he was God on Earth at that time but his failure to knock the Greeks into line ultimately led to his downfall.

The point is that most references in the Bible to God and all of the references to Lord refer to the Assyrian, Babylonian, and Persian emperors. When the God character was making threats it was simply a man who was doing the talking.
http://www.bible-history.com/maps/maps/m...mpire.html

[BrokenQuill92]

I think I understand what she's saying, and a lot of people who are born disabled feel like that. It's about how their disability is as much apart of them as their hair color. Though I wasn't born with my disability I can understand where she's coming from. And just because their is a "cure" for a disability doesn't mean it's ethical, or that the person would be able to physically or mentally be able to adjust.