How DOES the GOP do it? (part II)

[Ryantology]

Always with your lying and naive ignorant leftist Bullshit propaganda. Anyone who disagrees with the left is racist. Anyone who criticizes Obama is racist.

People who criticize Obama for being a poor president are not racist. People who criticize Obama for being a Kenyan-born muslim infiltrator who wants to DESTROY AMERICA are certainly racist. And, that latter is the narrative which drives the Tea Party. Plenty of us on the left dislike Obama's tendency to give you assholes too much of what you want, for nothing in return.

Anyone who wants to curb spending and reform government programs is racist.

Not necessarily racist, just smashingly hypocritical. The last time a conservative president even attempted to build a budget surplus was long before I was alive. Conservatives love spending and untrammeled government, as long as it benefits the rich and the military. Any spending that is designed to help the victims of their programs is what brings out cries of DAFFACITS ARE EVIL.

White Conservatives are racist.

With disturbing frequency, yes.

Black Conservatives and Black Libertarians who speak out against the opiate of government programs are Uncle Toms...

Black people who advocate a system that is, in large part, designed with the intent of keeping black people poor and marginalized are part of the problem. It's not racist to point this out.

Everybody's a racist who doesn't goose step to the leftist ideology...Yada, Yada, Yada.

Yada yada indeed.

The only real racists are the naive lily white far-left ideologues who believe Blacks and other minorities aren't smart enough to get along through life with out their guidance.

"The only racists are the white people who understand that black people, generally, start out with significant disadvantages in society and attempt to equalize the playing field so that everyone starts out equal. As the Founding Fathers intended."

I've also seen far-left lily whites on this forum feeling pretty free and comfortable throwing the 'N' word around, (claiming to make a point). That doesn't seem very tolerant from someone who claims to champion racial tolerance...FYI you leftist dolts, racism has no political or racial boundaries. Intolerance and racism isn't exclusive to just Whites. Racism has been a profitable business to hustlers like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. Where's the lily white far-left's preaching of racial tolerance when the New Black Panthers call for race wars and killing 'Crackers' and their babies? Just more of the same old typical far-left naivety, ignorance, and double standards.

[/quote]

The easiest way to identify a white racist conservative is to see which ones cry "race card" when their racism is exposed. White guilt, indeed.

[CapnAwesome]

I don't know, a lot of stuff was said about Bush, so it's sort of hard to dissect it all. ...some truly crazy stuff was said about him when he was in office that makes the stuff that some people in the GOP say about Obama seem tame and rational (I'm not saying it is either of those things, but just in comparison.) I don't blame Bush for hurricane Katrina or it's response. (seriously, that isn't remotely in control of the president.) Nor do I think that he was part of a secret society bent on controlling the earth. (The ole skull and bones bullshit.) I called out a lot of my liberal friends when they insisted that Bush was going to fake a disaster or terrorist attack to steal a third term (a genuinely popular idea amongst liberals during his second term.) I think a reflective lens and longer memory would serve people well who are so quick to jump on Republican who say crazy things about Obama.

Sorry, Capt, normally you post insightful and intelligent things but this is the same, tired, "c'mon, both sides do it" argument bandied about regularly by our corporate media.

Every time a conservative is caught being corrupt, incompetent or abusive, you're sure to hear "both sides" from both conservatives and their fake-centrist enablers in the mainstream media. Typically this argument is followed by laments about the "tone in Washington" and how our country is being torn apart by "extremes on both sides".

The "both-sides-do-it" canard relies heavily on digging deep to find some-crazy-liberal-conspiracy-theorist-with-a-blog (see your argument above) and act as if this somehow compares with mainstream conservative pundits with their own radio or TV shows and massive following. Some liberals were talking about "secret societies" and "skull and bones bullshit"? Really? I never heard any?

Name names for me! Who were these prominent liberal pundits who spoke of secret societies and the skull and bones whatever? Are there any TV clips or radio broadcasts I can see or listen to? Or was this just some-guy-you-talked-to-at-the-water-cooler-and-he's-now-equivalent-to-Sarah-Palin?

And when did Rachel Maddow or anyone as prominent a liberal pundit run a story or publish an op ed piece on the possible fake disaster or staged terrorist attack that Bush was planning to steal his third term? Or was this just something you read on blog-by-some-guy?

Now if your point is that there are crazy people in all corners, you'll get no argument from me. I do remember the "9/11 Truthers" who insisted that W Bush planned the 9/11 attacks. Do you know why I don't consider them to be a reflection on progressives in America? Because most of us laughed at them and still do. Certainly anyone prominent as a liberal pundit, to the best of my knowledge, never embraced or even flirted with Trutherism. Keith Olbermann, often used by "both siders" as an example of rage on the left side, in his angriest of tirades never once accused the Bush administration of planning 9/11.

As for Katrina, while Bush didn't plan for a hurricane to strike New Orleans, the man he appointed to FEMA was a political friend who had no qualifications and the Louisiana National Guard was deployed in his private war in Iraq. So I don't see why Bush gets a pass on that one.

Both...
Sides...
Don't

Okay, I was asked specifically what stuff I believed about Bush and what stuff I didn't, not about specific news sources etc. However if you think that a single more life would of been saved in New Orleans if it had happened when Obama was president, I think that you are part of the group who's agenda is to bash one side and support the other no matter the reality of the situation. The president has exactly 0 control over the evacuation of a city, yet the mantra of the time was 'Bush left black people to die in New Orleans.' Again with the tired old racism accusations.
Bush got blamed for everything little thing that happened during his presidency. Literally everything. I don't really feel like dredging up 10 year old news clips for an internet forum debate (and have to note that in fact you didn't bring one either. Not that people should really let the daily show do their research for them anyway.) but if you don't remember this you may have been seeing the whole process through the glasses of bias.

When you say both sides don't do it, what exactly do you think the left doesn't do? At best you can bring up a example that is extremely specific to what's going on right now. However do you think they don't participate in slander or propaganda? They don't lie about the other side? They don't flip flop in order to make a point? Yeah right.

[Bad Writer]

I do realise a more charitable way to read your message is "that you point out that all you ever hear from your righty friends is those points that are in smaller font and under the big ass racism accusation in the image and that they then unfriend you after you accuse them of being repetitive". But then, I'd not write any message condoning anything in a post like that without making it absolutely clear which part I'm agreeing with. Your post is quite ambiguous, clarify what 'this' is maybe?

Thank you for assuming positive intent, but even if I never right out called them a racist, my friends and I knew that they were being just that. A lot of the smaller print gets discussed, and most of those friends of mine remain friends, but the ones that are obviously being bigoted get called out rather harshly. I suppose I should mention that the latest offender was my brother, and I was not the only family member involved in calling him out for his ignorant remarks concerning the current Administration.

Look, I understand that we need to value communication and promote discourse and all that jazz, but when a far right Tea Partying asshole posts inflammatory comments from the Australian Tea Party Facebook page and makes blanket comments that offend anyone's sensibilities, I believe all rational discourse has flown out the window and the hammer of facts needs to be dropped.

But that's just me.

[Doubting Thomas]

They're mad as hell but they can't articulate why and don't seem to want to put the effort into finding out.

I think most of it has to do with the fact that the country isn't like you see in 1950's TV sitcoms and they know they're powerless to make it that way.

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I have no idea how many election cycles it will take, but the result will be an updated GOP that leans libertarian, pulling the GOP towards the center. The GOP will still have the same spoken but unpracticed 'fewer taxes/smaller government' mantra, but will rid itself of the social conservative bullshit.

I'm wondering if it will take a split from the ultra right wing Tea Party faction of the party. It will have to, or else traditional Republicans will leave and the concentration of crazy will increase, leaving the GOP as the frothing loony party. Of course, it's not too far from that now, with Batshit Shelly out there claiming that conservative Christians are the victims of bullying by gay people.

[Bad Writer]

When you say both sides don't do it, what exactly do you think the left doesn't do? At best you can bring up a example that is extremely specific to what's going on right now. However do you think they don't participate in slander or propaganda? They don't lie about the other side? They don't flip flop in order to make a point? Yeah right.

I think both sides make blanket statements, yes. First, an example from the right.

"Liberals want to take away our guns!"

No. Just no. For the most part, people just wish there were stricter rules on who can and can't own guns. Churches and car dealerships giving away guns is a recipe for trouble. I'm in the military, and I can't even trust half of the people I work with to be responsible with their firearms. I don't let my brother come to my house because he shot a hole in my wall after we got in an argument.

"All racists are Republicans"

Although demonstrably untrue, there is merit to this claim by Bill Maher (though his fact-finders need to look at his notes before he speaks to his audiences). He obviously meant white people that are racist, and you will probably find that the majority of this demographic are republicans. The majority of liberals do not want to ban guns, on the other hand, and many even own a firearm.

(To caveat this whole thing about Bill Maher, I believe he's a dick that ofttimes speaks before he thinks. He even spoke out against vaccinations to be promptly schooled on the issue by a republican...who knows if he feels different about it now...? Probably not, as he doesn't trust information coming from the political right.)

[DeistPaladin]

Okay, I was asked specifically what stuff I believed about Bush and what stuff I didn't, not about specific news sources etc.

My point in asking you to name names for reputable pundits, political leaders or anyone with a serious following on the left who made such crackpot statements about Bush planning another terrorist attack to take a 3rd term is to see if these ideas actually had traction on the left or of they were just some-crazy-guy-with-a-blog.

As I said, there are crazy people everywhere. 9/11 Truthers were certainly vocal during the W administration and you won't hear me defending them. They were and are conspiracy nuts. But they only had an audience with other conspiracy nuts. There were, as far as I can tell, no prominent liberal political leaders or pundits that were also Truthers.

Now compare this with Glenn Beck and his following, just to use the most extreme example. Glenn Beck had a prominent cable TV show for years and still, after finally being fired by Fox, has his own radio broadcast. Glenn Beck was the darling of the Tea Baggers and the Tea Baggers control much of the modern GOP.

Name names for me as to who the liberal analogs to Glenn Beck or Andrew Britebart are. Some-idiot-with-a-blog doesn't count. Some-podcaster-with-a-dozen-listeners doesn't count. It has to be someone prominent, published and respected in liberal circles.

However if you think that a single more life would of been saved in New Orleans if it had happened when Obama was president, I think that you are part of the group who's agenda is to bash one side and support the other no matter the reality of the situation.

I'm hardly a fan of Obama but you glossed over the point of Bush appointing a personal friend with no qualifications to FEMA and the Louisiana National Guard, which would have been useful in such an emergency, was in Iraq. These points alone place some responsibility on W's shoulders.

Compare and contrast this with Republican never-ending screeches about "Benghazi". I don't even know what the "scandal" even is or what they think Obama should or shouldn't have done.

Bush got blamed for everything little thing that happened during his presidency. Literally everything.

As did Carter, Reagan, HW Bush, Clinton and now Obama. Part of this goes with the job description. That much I'll grant you.

but if you don't remember this you may have been seeing the whole process through the glasses of bias.

The burden of proof is on you.

When you say both sides don't do it, what exactly do you think the left doesn't do? At best you can bring up a example that is extremely specific to what's going on right now. However do you think they don't participate in slander or propaganda? They don't lie about the other side? They don't flip flop in order to make a point? Yeah right.

Well, let's talk about the hatred of Bush vs. the hatred of Obama.

Most of the hatred of Bush was based on the fact that he lied us into a war. Most of the insults I heard in liberal circles was that he was a "war criminal". These comments were considered "shrill" by many others but guess what? He WAS a war criminal. He REALLY DID lie us into a war. We really DID attack Iraq on false pretense in a war that was really about enriching his friends. It's all out now and part of history. We were pooh-poohed as "shrill" but it turns out we were right.

Now compare this to the hatred of Obama. He's called a "socialist" (he's not even a liberal). He's called a "dictator" (he's been very accommodating to the right). He's said not to have been born here (sorry but the Birthers really do have a substantial following in the Tea Bagger movement). And how often do they need to bring up Benghazi?

Dilemma for Republicans
Because a significant portion of Republican voters and/or their Tea Party supporters believe Obama is not eligible to hold public office (see Opinion surveys section), Republicans sometimes found themselves caught in a dilemma between losing support or damaging their credibility.[181][182] They had "to walk the fine line of humoring conspiracy-minded supporters without explicitly questioning Obama's legitimacy..."[183] Other Republicans, including former Minnesota governor Tim Pawlenty and former Pennsylvania senator Rick Santorum, however, have plainly rejected these claims.[184]
An example of these situations is Mike Castle, then Representative for Delaware, who ran in 2010 for the Senate seat vacated by Vice President Joe Biden. At a town hall meeting, Castle was confronted by constituents who jeered him for insisting that Obama is a citizen of the United States.[185] Castle, one of the leading Republican moderates in the House, was later defeated by Tea Party-backed Christine O'Donnell in the Republican primary,[186][187] who herself later lost the general election to Democratic nominee Chris Coons.

In sum:
Yes, there are crazies on the left. They're the fringe and nobody significant pays any attention to them.

There are crazies on the right. They run the GOP.

Both!
Sides!
Don't!

[Bad Writer]

Okay, DP explained it a lot more succinctly than I did. The GOP's support of crazies in order to garner votes has, in turn, has given them similar ideals to the Tea Party. Their numbers are growing; they actually think that rising up against administrations such as Obama's is in everyone's best interest. I KNOW people stockpiling weapons and other armament for this very reason.

[A Theist]

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Always with your lying and naive ignorant leftist Bullshit propaganda. Anyone who disagrees with the left is racist. Anyone who criticizes Obama is racist.

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[Ryantology]

Myself and other conservatives I know criticze Obama for being a crappy president. People who criticize Obama for being a Kenyan-born muslim are just conspiracy theorists, much like the 9-11 truthers which derived from the left. That doesn't imply racism.

That doesn't, no.

Which is why Obama added more to the national debt in less than four years into his first term than did Bush in his eight years as president?

I didn't say that Obama was balancing the budget. Stop trying to deflect attention away from conservative hypocrisy on this issue.

Wrong. The disturbing frequency is how often the left falsely uses race as a method to smear Conservatives and Libertarians who disagree with them.

Racists definitely don't like being called racists. I understand.

Wrong. Some Blacks realized that the system which is, in large part, attacked and marginalized by the left as being only for rich Whites, actually offers equity, opportunity, and financial stability to all who will take personal responsibilty and work for it....It's racist to call them 'Uncle Toms'.

You must be living in an America from some alternate universe than the one everyone else here lives in. I live in an America where where you start on the economic ladder overwhelmingly determines where you'll finish on it. And it's only been getting worse since Reagonomics.

What you have is a handful of black people who, just like the relative handful of whites, made it in spite of overwhelming odds and refuse to admit that luck has more to do with it than anything else.

Wrong. When a White person calls out the 'race card' it's because that race IS being played by a Race Conspiracy Theorist". The left is obsessed with race to the degree of it being a mental illness that they're afflicted with. It's mostly used as a tactic by them to attack and smear people with whom they disagree. White guilt, indeed.

I think the lady doth protest too much.

[DeistPaladin]

Which is why Obama added more to the national debt in less than four years into his first term than did Bush in his eight years as president?

Bush not only ran up the debt but also completely wrecked the economy and Republicans have been sabotaging it ever since. When you wreck the economy, you create more budget problems because the government has less tax revenue and more people falling into the safety net.

The last round of shenanigans that the Republicans pulled this previous October, nearly destroying both the American economy and our good faith and credit, cost the economy 24 billion dollars.

Had Republicans gotten their way, America would have defaulted on its debts, a worldwide economic crash would have ensued that would have made 2008 look like a minor correction and arguably the USA would have gone from a world economic power to a 3rd world country. Our grandchildren would be so happy with us.

Also, the vast majority of "Obama's Debt" comes from the Bush wars, Bush Tax Cuts, and TARP. Obama's policies that have contributed to the debt include his middle class tax cuts and recovery measures, which were needed to avert the Bush Depression.

Given how Republicans cried to keep the Bush Tax Cuts for the Rich and how they're now hollering about the Defense cuts (do we really need to spend more than the next four nations combined and doubled?), I don't see how anyone in the GOP has the nerve to complain about deficits.