Origins of the patriarchy

[JesusChristIsLord69]

I've been reading a few books lately on feminism but none of them seem to give any clear history of the patriarchy. It all seems very vague and I wonder if anybody here can clarify its origins. Cheers.

[sven]

I've been reading a few books lately on feminism but none of them seem to give any clear history of the patriarchy. It all seems very vague and I wonder if anybody here can clarify its origins. Cheers.

This happens to be a subject that interests me.
I've seen several hypotethesies that attempt to explain this. Some claim patriarchal societies began to appear when domestication of animals and agriculture spread across the world. Apparently people weren't that certain that the father of a child had something to do with its conception before this. I find the evidence for this is a little bit sketchy, since I haven't heard of any written accounts -- it all seems to be interpretations of different archeological finds such as statues, pottery, and so on.
I have also read that it had to do with the rise of monotheistic religions that excluded women from the main worship, and the like.
The strongest evidence I've seen has to do with ancient greek society, where I feel that women were treated very poorly. They were more or less second class citizens. Roman men didn't exactly treat their women as equals either. Women were basically expected to stay at home, bear children, weave togas and shut up. They've even found inscriptions on roman grave stones where women are praised for being quiet and invisible.
I've seen a couple of theories about actual events that may have triggered the appearance of patriarchal societies in pre-historic times, but I feel that they are unreliable, because the evidence seems too open to interpretation. That is to say -- I don't think anyone can say with enough certainty exactly when it started, but there are reliable sources originating from the ancient world.

[JesusChristIsLord69]

The most obvious thing that comes to mind when using the argument that there is a patriarchy, and then attempting to argue from that premise, is to decide first how it began. If there are so many theories flying about, then maybe feminists should get their story straight. You can't scream patriarky and just expect men to say oooh, yeah, so sorry about that. Feminism is based on the premise that there's a patriarchy yet never have I heard an intelligent theory as to its origins. It's just rubbish, an excuse to whine and get privileges.

[Ryantology]

So, because we don't know how the idea originated, the idea that men have traditionally subjected women to second-class status is untrue?

[JesusChristIsLord69]

So, because we don't know how the idea originated, the idea that men have traditionally subjected women to second-class status is untrue?

The real issue here is why feminists feel that men oppress women. Adults and children are equally valid, employers and employees are too, same with an entertainer on a stage and the people in the audience. Both are equally valid but both have their own strengths and differences.

What feminists do is interpret different treatment as oppression. Men are vastly superior to women when it comes to some things, and women are vastly superior to men in other things. That's the way it is. Outliers and exceptions don't change the norm. Generalizations are valid.

Men and women aren't equal in the sense of being the same. To think that they are is absurd. Feminists want to live in a make believe world that cannot exist.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Feminism is based on the premise that there's a patriarchy yet never have I heard an intelligent theory as to its origins. It's just rubbish, an excuse to whine and get privileges.

Sorry, you think that simply because the origins of patriarchal societies aren't established fact that patriarchies don't exist?

In point of fact, most societies are patriarchal in nature, to a greater or lesser degree. Societies that are either matriarchal or egalitarian are the exception, rather than the rule.

In case you're unaware of it (you seem to be, correct me if I'm wrong) a patriarchal society is one in which males tend to be overwhelmingly dominant in positions of political, social, and economic authority. I assume you're an American (again, correct me if I'm wrong). Isn't there a tremendous disparity in your country between genders when it comes to holding political office, judicial authority, advanced military rank, and so on? Don't males significantly outnumber females when it comes to senior positions in corporations? It stuns me that you can deny the existence of a patriarchy, when you're living in one.

And so WHAT if feminists are fighting for privileges? Just a hundred yours ago in your country, a female couldn't be a judge, a peace officer, own property in her own name, or vote. I think they've earned a few perks.

Boru

[JesusChristIsLord69]

Feminism is based on the premise that there's a patriarchy yet never have I heard an intelligent theory as to its origins. It's just rubbish, an excuse to whine and get privileges.

Sorry, you think that simply because the origins of patriarchal societies aren't established fact that patriarchies don't exist?

In point of fact, most societies are patriarchal in nature, to a greater or lesser degree. Societies that are either matriarchal or egalitarian are the exception, rather than the rule.

In case you're unaware of it (you seem to be, correct me if I'm wrong) a patriarchal society is one in which males tend to be overwhelmingly dominant in positions of political, social, and economic authority. I assume you're an American (again, correct me if I'm wrong). Isn't there a tremendous disparity in your country between genders when it comes to holding political office, judicial authority, advanced military rank, and so on? Don't males significantly outnumber females when it comes to senior positions in corporations? It stuns me that you can deny the existence of a patriarchy, when you're living in one.

And so WHAT if feminists are fighting for privileges? Just a hundred yours ago in your country, a female couldn't be a judge, a peace officer, own property in her own name, or vote. I think they've earned a few perks.

Boru

So are you saying that feminism if about female superiority? That's what it sounds like. If you perceive that there has been a wrong, then two wrongs don'er make a right. By your logic, the time ought to come where men take over and claim superiority. And then it goes back and forth ad infinitum.

Is that what you want? Is that intelligent?

The reason why men have and always will be dominant in certain areas is because men are better suited for them.

And it's funny how feminists shriek for the right to do this and that, but they don't seem to be too bothered about their right to work in a sewer or get blown up on the battlefield. Funny that.

[Ryantology]

Outliers and exceptions don't change the norm. Generalizations are valid.

Like the generalization that Christians are typically credulous idiots who are either active agents of persecution or mindless, gullible sheep who passively (or not so passively) enable the former? There are outliers and exceptions, but they don't change the norm, after all.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Sorry, you think that simply because the origins of patriarchal societies aren't established fact that patriarchies don't exist?

In point of fact, most societies are patriarchal in nature, to a greater or lesser degree. Societies that are either matriarchal or egalitarian are the exception, rather than the rule.

In case you're unaware of it (you seem to be, correct me if I'm wrong) a patriarchal society is one in which males tend to be overwhelmingly dominant in positions of political, social, and economic authority. I assume you're an American (again, correct me if I'm wrong). Isn't there a tremendous disparity in your country between genders when it comes to holding political office, judicial authority, advanced military rank, and so on? Don't males significantly outnumber females when it comes to senior positions in corporations? It stuns me that you can deny the existence of a patriarchy, when you're living in one.

And so WHAT if feminists are fighting for privileges? Just a hundred yours ago in your country, a female couldn't be a judge, a peace officer, own property in her own name, or vote. I think they've earned a few perks.

Boru

So are you saying that feminism if about female superiority? That's what it sounds like. If you perceive that there has been a wrong, then two wrongs don'er make a right. By your logic, the time ought to come where men take over and claim superiority. And then it goes back and forth ad infinitum.

Is that what you want? Is that intelligent?

The reason why men have and always will be dominant in certain areas is because men are better suited for them.

And it's funny how feminists shriek for the right to do this and that, but they don't seem to be too bothered about their right to work in a sewer or get blown up on the battlefield. Funny that.

No, I'm saying that feminism is an attempt to address age-old inequalities. Feminists (most of them, at least) aren't looking for superiority over me, more of a level playing field.

Actually, a LOT of females have petitioned for battlefield combat positions. Who stops them? Men. And if you don't think women work in sewers or on construction sites, or in other filthy, dangerous jobs that are traditionally the province of males, you need to get out more.

Boru

[Minimalist]

The real issue here is why feminists feel that men oppress women

Yeah....what ever gave them that fucking idea?

11A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.…

1 Timothy 2

Oh, yeah.