Catholic diocese refuses to sell land out of fear of gay marriage, but...

[Esquilax]

lets see I claim "My bar is for "straight people only. and gay people can go to their own bars".

And I am the one that is "evil" ... really?

If they don't want gays in their church that is fine. Let gays make their own church. Its called freedom of choice.

of course, you know the real problem ... it aint the religion is it? and abuse is abuse. Stop abuse and racism.

I think the point I was actually making was pretty well represented in my last question, which is about the moral dissonance of an organization that hides and shelters pedophiles, yet will discriminate against gay people. The contrast there was what was relevant.

Freedom of choice doesn't absolve one of criticism for the choices they make, nor does it make hypocrisy okay.

[archangle]

You're kinda stupid.

now all you have to do is show me how smart you are by showing where I am wrong. I like learning.

---

lets see I claim "My bar is for "straight people only. and gay people can go to their own bars".

And I am the one that is "evil" ... really?

If they don't want gays in their church that is fine. Let gays make their own church. Its called freedom of choice.

of course, you know the real problem ... it aint the religion is it? and abuse is abuse. Stop abuse and racism.

I think the point I was actually making was pretty well represented in my last question, which is about the moral dissonance of an organization that hides and shelters pedophiles, yet will discriminate against gay people. The contrast there was what was relevant.

Freedom of choice doesn't absolve one of criticism for the choices they make, nor does it make hypocrisy okay.

I agree. But you guys are way past criticism.

Can a church say "no gays allowed."? If the church goers are not abusing "gay people" and letting them do what they want, like start their own church, whats the problem?

It seems to me we are forcing our belief on them?

[Mystical]

I think the biggest thing that you're missing here archangle, is that we aren't talking about who is and isn't allowed in your 'club', although we could be. We're talking about how your prejudices against homosexuals is akin to being a KKK racist. You can have your opinions. Just keep them out of business unless you want sit ins and protests. Because in the end, all you're doing is taking peoples rights away. I don't do that to you, so don't do that to me.

"The practice of homosexuality is incompatible to Christian teaching," reads a section in the Methodists' Book of Discipline.

OKAY, no problem! Do as you will. If you don't want me there I won't go there no biggie. Oh wait what's that? I can't get insurance for my partner because your church has lobbied with the state to prevent the legality of homosexual marriage? I can't live where I want because you descriminate against people 'like me'?

NOT OKAY.

The church doesn't dictate who can and cannot get married. The Constitution calls for Liberty and Justice for All, and pursuit of happiness, etc. here in America.

Bishops Urge Constitutional Amendment to Protect Marriage

WASHINGTON (CNS) -- The Administrative Committee of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops has called for a constitutional amendment to protect the unique social and legal status of marriage.

In Catholic belief, "marriage is a faithful, exclusive and lifelong union between one man and one woman, joined as husband and wife in an intimate partnership of life and love," the 47-bishop committee said in a statement released Sept. 10.

"What are called 'homosexual unions,' because they do not express full human complementarity and because they are inherently nonprocreative, cannot be given the status of marriage," the committee said.

Policy being based upon ignorant bigotry is not the best policy.

Trail Life USA, an organization similar to the Boy Scouts, with some major exceptions -- no gay members allowed, and only Christians can be leaders, Jeff Kunerth reports for the Orlando Sentinel. "And while Trail Life will ban openly gay boys, if a child shows same-sex attraction or 'gender confusion,' he will be counseled by the church ministry along with his parents."

We all know how that ends--suicides, and Church officials feeling so badly for trying to change what they cant that they apologize to an entire nation for how wrong they were.

Archbishop Oscar Cruz explained the ruling thusly,

May a lesbian marry a gay man? My answer is ‘yes’ because in that instance the capacity to consummate the union is there. The anatomy is there. The possibility of conception is there.

I guess all the infertile people of the planet are excluded from your marriage club too.

[KichigaiNeko]

I think it is laughable ....in the they will sell, because as always with 'Mother Church' it's ALL about the $$$$$$$$$$$

[Esquilax]

I agree. But you guys are way past criticism.

Can a church say "no gays allowed."? If the church goers are not abusing "gay people" and letting them do what they want, like start their own church, whats the problem?

It seems to me we are forcing our belief on them?

I haven't seen anything in this thread that is forcing anything on anyone. What are you even talking about?

What I see is a lot of people who get what I was saying, that it's pretty rich for an organization like the catholic church to be taking a moral stance on gay marriage while at the same time sheltering actual criminals, and that this hypocritical contrast is very sharp in this example, but I don't see anyone saying that they can't discriminate.

They can discriminate all they want, but they aren't absolved from the consequences of that; they're being hypocritical, they deserve to be called on that. They're discriminating based on absolutely nothing real, and they deserve to be told that. They're attempting to restrict rights in many cases, and they sure as hell deserve to be fought on that.

You seem to be saying that any negative attention the church receives for its actions is somehow forcing them to be a certain way. I refuse to be drawn into an argument on that, because that persecution card is the same one religions have been using to avoid having real conversations about their actions for decades. We aren't forcing anyone, but you bet we're trying to get them to see things a different way; that's what one should do when presented with argument and evidence. I don't see that as an insurmountable ask.