the pessimistic prophecies of 2 Timothy 3

[Coffee Jesus]

A proselytizing mormon told me to look at The Bible's prophecies that are coming true. The way he talked about it, this must be what convinced him that The Bible is true. I couldn't find out what he was talking about until I came across this article which mentions the pessimistic predictions of 2 Timothy 3.

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.

10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.

12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

At 42:40, Richard Dawkins talks to Steven Pinker, who argues that just the opposite is the case.
http://youtu.be/mHhSYyvI-5k?t=42m30s

Plus I would be suspicious of the prophecies given in any recent translation of The Bible. I don't know how recent that King James Version is that I quoted, but I compared it to what purports to be a 1611 King James Version on kingjamesbibleonline.org, and it looks identical.

[psychoslice]

Yes verse 3 does sound like a lot of Christians behavior towards the rest of the world.

[Duke Guilmon]

Ya because you know the world is clearly more violent. You know with blacks having more rights and crime going down in other countries clearly the world is getting worst.

[Coffee Jesus]

Even if the prediction is accurate to some degree (which I'm not convinced of), it's far from being the only verifiable claim The Bible makes.

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Steven Pinker wrote a book on the subject: The Better Angels of Our Natre: Why Violence Has Declined
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Better...Our_Nature

But 2 Tim 3 seems to be more focused on desires, esp. sexual desires, and undue pride.

I'll do violet for lust, green for greed, gray for general hedonism, teal for deceit, red for violence, brown for pride, and orange for rejecting God...

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.
10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

[psychoslice]

I think the world is much better than it once was by far, its just the media that makes it look bad, there are pockets of war around the world, but over all its a bloody good place to be.

[Coffee Jesus]

I forgot to consider under-developed countries.

Regardless of the over-all condition of our world, I think it's good enough if improvements in Western society provide a clear counter-example, especially so since religion is declining in the Western world.

[Coffee Jesus]

this article which mentions the pessimistic predictions of 2 Timothy 3.

Holy fork! I didn't realize that was an article dedicated to end-time prophecies! I was just looking for the verses (e.g. the star prophecy in Numbers) that were used as the basis for the Isrealite's messiah beliefs. And here I go to analyze all their citations of end times prophecies. This will be FUN!!! Holy eff-you-see-kay! FUN! FUN! FUN! FUN IN A BUN!

I haven't read The Bible, and I will appreciate any context provided by anyone who has.

[Godscreated]

I think the world is much better than it once was by far, its just the media that makes it look bad, there are pockets of war around the world, but over all its a bloody good place to be.

Children killing children in schools, police at schools to protect students, drugs rampant in schools. Searching everyone at airports, terrorist luckily being stop most off the time, evil men and women trying to kill the innocent. Slavery at an all time high, great wealth separation, the environment in trouble, extinctions happening almost daily. Drug wars, ethnic wars, religious wars and wars of hate and land grabbing. Women being abused world wide in so many different ways, Child molestation at levels that are absolutely horrifying and it's unbelievable we allow this to go on at the rates it's happening, this shows that men has little concern for their fellow human beings. This is a good world and better than what and when?

GC

[psychoslice]

I forgot to consider under-developed countries.

Regardless of the over-all condition of our world, I think it's good enough if improvements in Western society provide a clear counter-example, especially so since religion is declining in the Western world.

And thank god it is declining.

---

I think the world is much better than it once was by far, its just the media that makes it look bad, there are pockets of war around the world, but over all its a bloody good place to be.

Children killing children in schools, police at schools to protect students, drugs rampant in schools. Searching everyone at airports, terrorist luckily being stop most off the time, evil men and women trying to kill the innocent. Slavery at an all time high, great wealth separation, the environment in trouble, extinctions happening almost daily. Drug wars, ethnic wars, religious wars and wars of hate and land grabbing. Women being abused world wide in so many different ways, Child molestation at levels that are absolutely horrifying and it's unbelievable we allow this to go on at the rates it's happening, this shows that men has little concern for their fellow human beings. This is a good world and better than what and when?

GC

So you would rather live back in the dark ages when filthy religion ruled ?.

[Esquilax]

Children killing children in schools, police at schools to protect students, drugs rampant in schools. Searching everyone at airports, terrorist luckily being stop most off the time, evil men and women trying to kill the innocent. Slavery at an all time high, great wealth separation, the environment in trouble, extinctions happening almost daily. Drug wars, ethnic wars, religious wars and wars of hate and land grabbing. Women being abused world wide in so many different ways, Child molestation at levels that are absolutely horrifying and it's unbelievable we allow this to go on at the rates it's happening, this shows that men has little concern for their fellow human beings. This is a good world and better than what and when?

GC

Ah yes, the standard "ninety-nine percent equals zero percent," fallacy. How indicative of the binary way in which you see the world.

Would you agree that there's a difference between "better" and "perfect" GC? Because, for example, you point a finger at women being abused as proof that things aren't better today, but at least nowadays there's a much improved chance that those abusers might be punished by the law for their actions, as opposed to when your religion ruled, when they would just be able to buy the women they abused as wives.