3 Questions For Believers (A work in progress.)

[Lek]

It's just that if your god exists, he didn't give you much more than a squirt gun with which to face the raw power of empirical reason.

Of course that's your opinion because you've trapped yourself inside the box. The "raw power of empirical reason" must not be that strong since most people in the world wouldn't agree with you and would see my reasoning as quite rational.

[Jackalope]

The "raw power of empirical reason" must not be that strong since most people in the world wouldn't agree with you and would see my reasoning as quite rational.

That in and of itself, is an irrational argument.

[FatAndFaithless]

The "raw power of empirical reason" must not be that strong since most people in the world wouldn't agree with you and would see my reasoning as quite rational.

That in and of itself, is an irrational argument.

30 million smokers can't be wrong!

[Jenny A]

It's just that if your god exists, he didn't give you much more than a squirt gun with which to face the raw power of empirical reason.

Of course that's your opinion because you've trapped yourself inside the box. The "raw power of empirical reason" must not be that strong since most people in the world wouldn't agree with you and would see my reasoning as quite rational.

There's a reason those who believe in god have to keep praying for faith and strength. It's hard work believing in the irrational.

[Rekeisha]

So, I've recently been planning a basic strategy to use when debating with theists. There will never be a "one-size fits all" approach, obviously, but I know a lot of people have their own strategies that can engage any average believer. So, I'll run through my strategy, which consists of 3 questions, and I was hoping I could get some feedback from fellow atheists who may have heard good/terrible responses to these questions.

1. Does it matter to you whether or not your beliefs are true?

Basically, do you believe what you do because you think it's true? Or just because it feels good? Is there any amount of evidence that could ever change your mind? What if you knew for a FACT that it wasn't true, would you still cling to the belief out of the comfort it gives you?

2. Do you agree that truth is determined by evidence and observation of facts, and not through any other means?

Pretty basic, just simply; Do you understand how we come to understand something as truth? It's through evidence and evidence alone. We may be wrong about things sometimes, but science remains by far and away the single best method of coming to knowledge.

3. Do you understand that there is no evidence to support the claim that your beliefs are true?

If the first two questions went very quickly, then obviously this one is going to take the largest amount of time to discuss. But it's rewarding if you can trap them in their own mind games. Obviously, they can not answer these questions the way a logical person would. If they care about the truth, then they must acknowledge that they require evidence, not faith. And if they accept that there is no evidence to support their claims, then they can't even explain to themselves why they believe in God.

Any changes I should make before I try these out? How do you guys tend to argue with a believer?

I am a believer and his is how I would answer you.

yes it does matter than my believe are true.
no, to know truth you must know everything or know someone who knows everything.
This is a loaded question. What you want to do is become judge and jury of weither God is real and he is the judge not us.

[atheist critic]

1 question for atheists

You guys claim abortion is bad. Yet secularism has been the cause of 1 billion plus abortion out the 1.3 billion since 1980. So my question is who on their right mind says abortion is bad and encourages people to have as many abortions as possible. Moreover force teens to have set so more abortions occur through liberal agendas?? Please will you explain.



Atheist logic : Give kids condoms by the age of 12, but don't tell them to wait till 18.

[robvalue]

Atheism is not secularism, and atheism has no opinion on any such issues. Each atheist will have his or her own opinion on these matters.

[KevinM1]

I love the number he pulled out of his ass. 1 billion out of 1.3 billion. LMFAO.

In addition to what Rob said, abstinence only education simply does not work, and teaches burgeoning adults to fear their bodies and natural instincts rather than understand them.

Note that I don't think anyone condones 12 year olds having sex. But if they are having sex (and some are), it's better that they do with with access to contraception.

[atheist critic]

So, I've recently been planning a basic strategy to use when debating with theists. There will never be a "one-size fits all" approach, obviously, but I know a lot of people have their own strategies that can engage any average believer. So, I'll run through my strategy, which consists of 3 questions, and I was hoping I could get some feedback from fellow atheists who may have heard good/terrible responses to these questions.

1. Does it matter to you whether or not your beliefs are true?

Basically, do you believe what you do because you think it's true? Or just because it feels good? Is there any amount of evidence that could ever change your mind? What if you knew for a FACT that it wasn't true, would you still cling to the belief out of the comfort it gives you?

2. Do you agree that truth is determined by evidence and observation of facts, and not through any other means?

Pretty basic, just simply; Do you understand how we come to understand something as truth? It's through evidence and evidence alone. We may be wrong about things sometimes, but science remains by far and away the single best method of coming to knowledge.

3. Do you understand that there is no evidence to support the claim that your beliefs are true?

If the first two questions went very quickly, then obviously this one is going to take the largest amount of time to discuss. But it's rewarding if you can trap them in their own mind games. Obviously, they can not answer these questions the way a logical person would. If they care about the truth, then they must acknowledge that they require evidence, not faith. And if they accept that there is no evidence to support their claims, then they can't even explain to themselves why they believe in God.

Any changes I should make before I try these out? How do you guys tend to argue with a believer?

I am lucky because I got to experience God through dreams, prophecies, loved ones communicating to me on the day they died when I had no way of knowing..stuff like this.

So my evidence is God answering my prayers, the experience through God, and other things.But the bottom line is I experienced something beyond the five senses through God.

Experience is something personal for the individual butwill never suffice for others to know there is a God.

Circular logic questions...how about logic canceling itself out? Logic stays in s box...if you want that forget chasing the experience. It's up to you but there is only one God.

[TheRealJoeFish]

AHHHH ZOMBIE THREAD

it died 9 months ago but IT'S BACK

All right, who buried this thread in the Pet Sematary? <looks accusingly at Rekeisha>